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HellBound Hackers | Computer General | Hacking in general

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RE: telnet and remote access

spyware
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Posted on 27-10-10 15:51
This thread is a billion years old.



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce
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RE: telnet and remote access

Mtutnid
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Posted on 27-10-10 16:55
Who revived this thread? And btw if you are on the same network you might be able to access their router settings ect. people rarely change the password.
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RE: telnet and remote access

stealth-
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Posted on 28-10-10 02:14
Mtutnid wrote:
Who revived this thread? And btw if you are on the same network you might be able to access their router settings ect. people rarely change the password.


It's pretty obvious what happened if you actually read the thread Wink


The irony of man's condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation; but it is life itself which awakens it, and so we must shrink from being fully alive.
http://www.stealt. . .
http://www.stealth-x.com
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RE: telnet and remote access

TommyCat
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Posted on 28-10-10 03:54
stealth- wrote:
I have to disagree with you on the number of Python programmers. There are *plenty*. It has nothing to do with the IDE, either. In fact, most programmers don't use IDE's anyways, especially with scripting languages.
Aside from that, it was an interesting read. Smile


About python.. please check TIOBE and you'll find out I'm right..

Programming language of 2010 is JAVA
2nd place - C
3rd place - C++
4th place - PHP
5th place - VB
6th place - C#
7th place - Python

and next are: Objective-C, Perl, Ruby, Javascript, Delphi, Lisp, TransactSQL,

15th place - Pascal

following are: RPG, Ada, SAS, MATLAB, Go, NXT-G, Powershell, PL/SQL, Lua, ABAP, Scheme, Fortran, Object Pascal, Alice, Logo, C Shell, TCL, D, COBOL, ActionScript, Scratch, R

38th place: Visual Basic .NET

and the list goes on

The point here is:
1. Python is less popular than VB, C, or Java
2. Pascal is still ON and pretty popular
3. Java is the most widely used programming language.


Source: http://www.tiobe.. . .index.html

Thank you


It's the final CountDowN
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RE: telnet and remote access


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Posted on 28-10-10 04:07
TIOBE wrote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, Yahoo!, Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings.

That is not a reliable metric at all. The number of skilled practitioners + the number of bullshit courses + the number of vendors selling snake oil = a whole lot of lies. There is no way to measure the popularity of a programming language reliably, since any amount of information mining (no matter how great the sample group) cannot represent the whole.

Also, Wikipedia and YouTube are not "search engines". One is a digital encyclopedia (with questionable quality of articles) and the other is a social video sharing site.

Thus, the "TIOBE Programming Community Index" is crap, and should be ignored. The popularity of a programming language doesn't matter; only its usefulness to the programmer does.


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RE: telnet and remote access

TommyCat
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Posted on 28-10-10 04:11
stealth- wrote:

The one other point I disagree with was the "trojans are simple programs" part. When you start considering NAT, log systems, and avoiding detection the "simple program" easily becomes a very large and complex one.

Aside from that, it was an interesting read. Smile


You're completely right. If you do take into consideration all the modules you could add to a trojan, then yes.. it will become a big, large, and complex project.

I was trying to express myself generally, so people can understand the basic concept of "trojan".
Let me explain again. For example, a trojan could allow you to log all keys pressed by the victim.
Does this mean that the trojan logs the keys pressed?
Answer: No, the one that logs keys is the keylogger.
This keylogger can be a separate executable controlled by a module in the trojan, or it can be itself a part (module) of the trojan.

Anyways, I strongly believe that this is the correct way to think of trojans, as this way it's way simpler to find them, destroy them, or maybe just create them Wink

Thank you for reading


It's the final CountDowN
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RE: telnet and remote access

TommyCat
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Posted on 28-10-10 04:12
define wrote:
The popularity of a programming language doesn't matter; only its usefulness to the programmer does.


Completely on the spot there.

Oh.. but you can't just completely ignore TIOBE.
That list it's like a *poll*, not like an *inquiry*, so it's meant really for guidelines. It's really not meant to be something precise.

Thank You


It's the final CountDowN

Edited by TommyCat on 28-10-10 04:23
Author

RE: telnet and remote access

spyware
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Posted on 28-10-10 04:53
TommyCat wrote:
The point here is:
1. Python is less popular than VB, C, or Java
2. Pascal is still ON and pretty popular
3. Java is the most widely used programming language.


Pascal seems to be several times less ON and popular than Python, and since you defined Pascal tyo be "pretty" popular, we can assume Python to be at least more than pretty popular.





img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce
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RE: telnet and remote access

stealth-
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Posted on 29-10-10 01:11
TommyCat wrote:
stealth- wrote:

The one other point I disagree with was the "trojans are simple programs" part. When you start considering NAT, log systems, and avoiding detection the "simple program" easily becomes a very large and complex one.

Aside from that, it was an interesting read. Smile


You're completely right. If you do take into consideration all the modules you could add to a trojan, then yes.. it will become a big, large, and complex project.

I was trying to express myself generally, so people can understand the basic concept of "trojan".
Let me explain again. For example, a trojan could allow you to log all keys pressed by the victim.
Does this mean that the trojan logs the keys pressed?
Answer: No, the one that logs keys is the keylogger.
This keylogger can be a separate executable controlled by a module in the trojan, or it can be itself a part (module) of the trojan.

Anyways, I strongly believe that this is the correct way to think of trojans, as this way it's way simpler to find them, destroy them, or maybe just create them Wink

Thank you for reading


NAT traversal and hiding itself are very much parts of the trojan. Unless you think the "receiving connections" part and the "existing on the computer" part are "modules". If you would really like to be technical with definitions, Wikipedia considers a trojan horse to be a piece of "malware that appears to perform a desirable function for the user prior to run or install but instead facilitates unauthorized access of the user's computer system". Which means it must also look like a functional piece of software and convince the user they are functional. They can be very in depth, but it really is opinion. I was more referring to a decent trojan, you seem to be referring to something like a 20 line python script.

As for the TIOBE, yes, it can be completely ignored. It is impossible to "rank" programming languages in the way they are. For example, most people won't even know what RPG, Ada, SAS, MATLAB, NXT-G, Powershell, ABAP, Scheme, Alice, C Shell, Scratch, or R actually are, but for some strange reason all of those languages come before VB.NET, which almost everyone will recognize as a programming language. It does not judge the popularity of programming languages, only makes a weak attempt at ranking their appearance on the internet.



The irony of man's condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation; but it is life itself which awakens it, and so we must shrink from being fully alive.
http://www.stealt. . .
http://www.stealth-x.com
Author

RE: telnet and remote access

TommyCat
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Posted on 03-11-10 17:16
spyware wrote:
[
Pascal seems to be several times less ON and popular than Python, and since you defined Pascal tyo be "pretty" popular, we can assume Python to be at least more than pretty popular.



Python shure is popular, no doubt about it, and i think it's gonna become more and more popular.
And abut Pascal, it's really just my opinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me on this one. I just want to remember you folks that there still is that cute little programming language named Pascal. The reason is that it's my first programming language, and I shure did learn a lot from it.

Thank you


It's the final CountDowN
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RE: telnet and remote access

TommyCat
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Posted on 03-11-10 17:25
stealth- wrote:

NAT traversal and hiding itself are very much parts of the trojan. Unless you think the "receiving connections" part and the "existing on the computer" part are "modules". If you would really like to be technical with definitions, Wikipedia considers a trojan horse to be a piece of "malware that appears to perform a desirable function for the user prior to run or install but instead facilitates unauthorized access of the user's computer system". Which means it must also look like a functional piece of software and convince the user they are functional. They can be very in depth, but it really is opinion. I was more referring to a decent trojan, you seem to be referring to something like a 20 line python script.

As for the TIOBE, yes, it can be completely ignored. It is impossible to "rank" programming languages in the way they are. For example, most people won't even know what RPG, Ada, SAS, MATLAB, NXT-G, Powershell, ABAP, Scheme, Alice, C Shell, Scratch, or R actually are, but for some strange reason all of those languages come before VB.NET, which almost everyone will recognize as a programming language. It does not judge the popularity of programming languages, only makes a weak attempt at ranking their appearance on the internet.


So you're saying that ProRat's trojan appears to perform a desirable function for the user? If so, you're actually half right, because the "client" part of ProRat is actually not as innocent as it wants to look.
But if we talk about SubSeven or NetDevil.. I really don;t know what to say about this, because their trojan server doesn't disguise itself as a software that an user would like to run.

I agree with you about the complexity of a trojan, but if you want to explain trojans to someone that is not as geek as you or me, you should consider taking it easy, explaining level after level, so people can understand. That's what my post was all about.


Oh, and about TIOBE, I think they give rankings based of the number of lines wrote in that particular programming language each year.. so if VB,NET is far down the list, this can mean that Vb.NET is awesome, and you can concentrate 10-20 lines of code from another programming language in one Vb.NET line. (a little joke based on reality Smile )

Thank you


It's the final CountDowN

Edited by TommyCat on 03-11-10 17:30
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RE: telnet and remote access

chess_rock
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Posted on 03-11-10 23:03
TommyCat, you're a moron.
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RE: telnet and remote access

stealth-
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Posted on 04-11-10 00:39
TommyCat wrote:
So you're saying that ProRat's trojan appears to perform a desirable function for the user?


I'm saying, that according to wikipedia, it has to be disguised to have a desirable function and must trick the user into using it to be legitimately classified as a trojan.

I agree with you about the complexity of a trojan, but if you want to explain trojans to someone that is not as geek as you or me you should consider taking it easy, explaining level after level, so people can understand.


I'm sorry, but your system of "modules" of a program that do different functions and must be clarified properly seems much more complex than my "It's remote access software that hides itself". I'm not saying you have to describe all layers and possible functions of a trojan, I'm saying that if you want to build one yourself it's going to be a lot harder than coding "simple program", as you called it. This has really become a ridiculously stupid argument, and I don't know why you seem so worried over such a loosely based definition to begin with.

geek as you or me


I don't know about you, but I'm not a geek.
Geek != Hacker

Oh, and about TIOBE, I think they give rankings based of the number of lines wrote in that particular programming language each year.. so if VB,NET is far down the list, this can mean that Vb.NET is awesome, and you can concentrate 10-20 lines of code from another programming language in one Vb.NET line. (a little joke based on reality Smile )


That doesn't make it any more accurate. Less so, in fact, because you were using it as a way of describing how popular languages are.

chess_rock wrote:
TommyCat, you're a moron.


A very argumentative one, too.

Thank you

You're welcome.


The irony of man's condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation; but it is life itself which awakens it, and so we must shrink from being fully alive.
http://www.stealt. . .
http://www.stealth-x.com
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RE: telnet and remote access

TommyCat
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Posted on 04-11-10 16:29
chess_rock wrote:
TommyCat, you're a moron.


Why? Smile

stealth- wrote:
A very argumentative one, too.


I'm not arguing with you or anybody else. From my point of view, this is just a discussion (In a discussion forum, waddaya know Smile ) about trojans
In a discussion one doesn't have to be right or wrong, but it's important we have our own opinions, based on our experience and knowledge.

I see you don't agree with my "modular" design. I didn't say that building a trojan is a piece of cake, something you do in 5 lines of code. Of course, nothing is *That* simple, because if it was, anyone could do it.

But..
Less complex things are less likely to malfunction
Wink



It's the final CountDowN
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RE: telnet and remote access

spyware
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Posted on 04-11-10 21:51
WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING ON

ARGH



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce
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Posted on 04-11-10 22:32
just for you spy Wink

@ whoever necro'd the thread:
If you have a question or something to say, or even something new to add to an old topic, make a new thread. I'm not about to read through 60 comments of general shit, just to find out what's going on here.


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RE: telnet and remote access

stealth-
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Posted on 04-11-10 22:51
maug wrote:
just for you spy Wink

@ whoever necro'd the thread:
If you have a question or something to say, or even something new to add to an old topic, make a new thread. I'm not about to read through 60 comments of general shit, just to find out what's going on here.


If you don't want to read the thread, or even just skim the dates, then don't respond to it. Pfft
TommyCat was just clarifying in an old thread to make things clear to anyone who happened to stumble across it, and we were discussing something related to his (quite in-depth) post. Although I don't see the problem with us discussing it, it's not like there is a whole lot going on in HBH right now, I think we're pretty much finished now.


The irony of man's condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation; but it is life itself which awakens it, and so we must shrink from being fully alive.
http://www.stealt. . .
http://www.stealth-x.com
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