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RE: Privacy vs. Security


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Posted on 02-02-09 01:10
I come down on the privacy side of the issue.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

ynori7
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Posted on 02-02-09 01:48
Sabrewulf wrote:
I come down on the privacy side of the issue.

This is a debate, give some reasoning, not just your stance.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

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Posted on 02-02-09 02:34
ynori7 wrote:
Sabrewulf wrote:
I come down on the privacy side of the issue.

This is a debate, give some reasoning, not just your stance.



Yes i agree. you need to elaborate on why you like privacy. Give some information to back up why you chose privacy.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

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Posted on 02-02-09 04:46
rex_mundi wrote:
Ok so picture the scene .....a cheap affordable place you can visit at almost anytime of the day , to talk with friends or even meet with strangers , easily accessible by the majority of the masses , where anyone can go and listen to music , read books, play games , discuss politics and share ideas , opinions or information .

A concept apparently so dangerous to the ruling elite , that they decide they have to know everything that's being said and shared by the people visiting these places .

So the government commissions networks of spies etc , to infiltrate and monitor the conversations of their subjects , and attempt to restrict the open sharing of such information and ideas by the introduction of new laws and legislation .

So let's put this in it's proper historical context :

http://en.wikiped. . .se#History

As you see , this debate is neither new , nor modern , in reality , it is not even about 'privacy' or 'security' ....... it is about CONTROL , as it always has been .



Exactly, witch is what i have been trying to say but not in the same exact words.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

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Posted on 02-02-09 12:56
Privacy vs. Security:

I agree that Both are needed in the world we live in. We need a fair balance between the two. Privacy is needed to keep your own information as your own. If privacy were not an issue than the internet would not be anonymous (or so people say). Security is also needed because without security the privacy would be nothing since people would be able to access any information they wanted to.

I would have to say that security is more important though. Here is my reasoning. With Privacy you are stating that you have things to hide (which everyone does). These do not need to be things that are obtainable on the internet right now, rather more personal things like salary, social insurance number, etc... This is where privacy stands. Without it you are not going to be able to hide anything, what will come is lack of security through lack of privacy. So without the Privacy factor you cannot have security. Though this will be equally arguable in the other direction that without security you cannot have privacy I have made my points.

Please chip in your thoughts on this. I thought we wanted to make this into a debate not a "yes"/"no" scene.

<sidenote>
Also please note that unless you are masking your IP your location is easily obtained through tracking software that government bodies use. People can obtain your house address (or city block at least) with your IP as the ISP companies need to assign your location that way. If you are on Dynamic it only makes it slightly less simple. Remember, the ISP has all logs of where you live and what your MAC is. So through your ISP you are traceable no matter what you think.
</sidenote>


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

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Posted on 02-02-09 15:26
AldarHawk wrote:
Privacy vs. Security:

I agree that Both are needed in the world we live in. We need a fair balance between the two. Privacy is needed to keep your own information as your own. If privacy were not an issue than the internet would not be anonymous (or so people say). Security is also needed because without security the privacy would be nothing since people would be able to access any information they wanted to.

I would have to say that security is more important though. Here is my reasoning. With Privacy you are stating that you have things to hide (which everyone does). These do not need to be things that are obtainable on the internet right now, rather more personal things like salary, social insurance number, etc... This is where privacy stands. Without it you are not going to be able to hide anything, what will come is lack of security through lack of privacy. So without the Privacy factor you cannot have security. Though this will be equally arguable in the other direction that without security you cannot have privacy I have made my points.

Please chip in your thoughts on this. I thought we wanted to make this into a debate not a "yes"/"no" scene.

<sidenote>
Also please note that unless you are masking your IP your location is easily obtained through tracking software that government bodies use. People can obtain your house address (or city block at least) with your IP as the ISP companies need to assign your location that way. If you are on Dynamic it only makes it slightly less simple. Remember, the ISP has all logs of where you live and what your MAC is. So through your ISP you are traceable no matter what you think.
</sidenote>



Your logic makes total sense. We are all human so we all want stuff we don't have. So i guess i have to change my mind on what i think. due to the fact that if you have important information people will always want it. but if you a stable security, you can prevent identity lost.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

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Posted on 03-02-09 12:24
No one else going to chip in on this "debate"? It is not seeming like a debate ATM :angry:


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Posted on 03-02-09 15:05
AldarHawk wrote:
No one else going to chip in on this "debate"? It is not seeming like a debate ATM :angry:



Its hard to chip in if no one is chipping in.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security


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Posted on 04-02-09 03:37
Hey guys, long time no see.

I side 1000% with Spyware in that I believe privacy matters more. You do not want all of the information that you have available because you do not know what can be done with it, apart from the obvious SE'ing passwords and impersonation. By being cyber savvy, one can reduce their chances by being a smaller target.
One thing that people don't take into account is that the internet was made for the easy transfer of information. Anything that you put on there can be read by anyone at anytime anywhere. There is something on the web that you do want to hide, and if it is nobody's business but a certain party, ten the information should only be accessible by that certain party.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Benjamin Franklin




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Posted on 04-02-09 05:17
Pwnzall wrote:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Benjamin Franklin

Well, if we're going to be bringing old dead guys into this then here's my retort.

The idea of the Social Contract was developed a long time ago and has been built upon quite a bit over the years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract says:
Social contract describes a broad class of republican theories whose subjects are implied agreements by which people form nations and maintain a social order. Such social contract implies that the people give up some rights to a government and other authority in order to receive or jointly preserve social order.

The names Jean-Jacques Rousseau and John Locke might come to mind to any of you who may be well educated in the humanities area. The two of them were very well known political philosophers in the 1700's, but the Social Contract is an idea that dates back even as far as Plato: "Under a theory first articulated by Plato in his Socratic dialog Crito, members within a society implicitly agree to the terms of the social contract by their choice to stay within the society."

Most societies today have a form of Social Contract. Take the United States for example. We have our Bill of Rights and Constitution and such, but the government has the power to invade our privacy with a warrant (and sometimes without) and they have the power to break up crowds of people if it seems there may be a danger of riot. They can make laws telling us we can't speed and steal and so on. Your Benjamin Franklin quote is worthless because he himself was part of a republic with a Social Contract and in fact he helped write the Constitution.

This philosophy makes sense and it works. I'd be willing to sacrifice a bit of privacy on the internet (which is not where life takes place) to the people I pay taxes to if it means I'm a bit less likely to be attacked by hackers, phished, email spammed, etc.




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Posted on 04-02-09 13:16
well writ Ynori7!

Lets get some more into this.

I agree that security is the most important part of the factor. Not by a lot but it is a stronger presence. If you disagree with Ynori and I please tell us why and back it up Pfft


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Posted on 07-02-09 05:21
AldarHawk wrote:
well writ Ynori7!

Lets get some more into this.

I agree that security is the most important part of the factor. Not by a lot but it is a stronger presence. If you disagree with Ynori and I please tell us why and back it up Pfft



No need to Disagree.


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Posted on 07-02-09 06:01
shadowls wrote:
No need to Disagree.

That was pointless. Don't talk just for the sake of talking. Contribute something or don't post.


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Posted on 07-02-09 06:10
I have stated my point many times so far, but if you want me to elaborate on it more then i will. I am saying that we need a balance of both. YOu cannot get one without the other. For example. Does it take 1 person to start a fight? no you need a 2 or more people to start a fight. The same concept applies to this topic.


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Posted on 07-02-09 07:24
Mosh your wrong. to start a conflict, you still need 2 people to start something or for it to be escalated. anyways, as i said privacy and security are both big problems. and if you have one you have the other.


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Posted on 07-02-09 07:25
Like all things it's a case of balance, particularly because there's no chance of one without the other.
I stand on the horses for courses side of the fence.

Completely offtopic: Ynori7, hellsing is fucken win.


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RE: Privacy vs. Security

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Posted on 07-02-09 08:00
richohealey wrote:
Like all things it's a case of balance, particularly because there's no chance of one without the other.
I stand on the horses for courses side of the fence.

Completely offtopic: Ynori7, hellsing is fucken win.



Witch was my point. In the world we live in. People will always want something they cannot get. and try to see things they cannot see.


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Posted on 09-02-09 12:24
richohealey wrote:
Like all things it's a case of balance, particularly because there's no chance of one without the other.
I stand on the horses for courses side of the fence.


You may stand on both sides of the fence Richo, but in all things one of these two is slightly stonger of a compulsion to you. I know for a fact that I prefer the security side of things because without it the privacy would be lacking. But again this will be a argument that will be won by a few people arguing each point, not just one person on each side with people saying "Yeah that is what I think too!"

We need people to put in some good contributions on this subject. So please, step forth and state your thoughts. No flaming if you can state your argument clearly and that it is well thought out. So lets get more people in on this.


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Posted on 10-02-09 00:10
I feel like singing the following with a beautiful melody, maybe even scream it at the top of my lungs, but since neither one can be conveyed through this medium, i will contend with typing it in full caps:
FALSE DICHOTOMY

well, that felt great. yes indeed, it is not security vs. privacy at all, rather security AND privacy. why settle for just one when we clearly need and desire both? a system that claims to protect you while taking away your privacy is not securing you at all, rather it is leaving you wide open.

anyways, i hope you guys can understand this. i'll leave you with a quote from benjamin franklin who was fucking rad: "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" yes, its not as eloquent as they usually misquote him, but its more straight to the point, and its an actual quote.


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Posted on 10-02-09 03:53
Folk Theory wrote:
I feel like singing the following with a beautiful melody, maybe even scream it at the top of my lungs, but since neither one can be conveyed through this medium, i will contend with typing it in full caps:
FALSE DICHOTOMY

Nobody said it was a dichotomy. Nobody said it had to be one or the other. The debate topic was: should privacy be sacrificed for security, not how should we improve security. We're debating the validity of this particular solution.

As for your Benjamin Franklin quote, pwnzall already said it on page 2, and I believe I had a fairly good reply. Take a look.


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