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Author

New Contest suggestion

TommyCat
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Posted on 04-11-10 21:22
I posted a question at
http://www.hellbo. . .d_id=15906
about the "Programming" is Challenges section in "My Profile"

And I guess I should talk about this here, since this is a suggestion.
Here goes:

We could have here on HBH a new type of challenge, something like a contest.

1. Who designs the best application that does whatever task (the task or purpose of the application would be specified)

2. There would be a deadline for application submission.

3. Points will be awarded based on:
- User friendliness - as in "ease of use"
- Speed (how fast does the application complete a specific task)
- Lines of code (fewer lines, more points)
- Graphic design (maybe this could be included in user friendliness)
- Maybe even portability

4. The applicatrion that accumulates the most points wins the contest, and the prize is a number of HBH challenge or rank points, based on the complexity of the task. There could be a system with places 1, 2 and 3..

5. I know that this could mean a big load on the administrators, but maybe there can be formed something like a jury of 10 trusty persons.. or something like that. I'm willing to actively participate on this if you guys will approve it.

Oh oh, maybe you can make a poll.. let's vote who wants this and who doesn't (it's just an ideea Smile )

Thank you, and feel free to post suggestions about the point-awarding system or anything else, as this is an ideea that came to me just now, like Flash Grin


It's the final CountDowN
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RE: New Contest suggestion


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Posted on 04-11-10 21:37
TommyCat wrote:
- Lines of code (fewer lines, more points)

Yeah, that pesky error checking business just gets in the way of what a good application is. The best run on trust and fairy giggles.


Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

fuser
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Posted on 05-11-10 03:23
TommyCat wrote:
I posted a question at
http://www.hellbo. . .d_id=15906
about the "Programming" is Challenges section in "My Profile"

And I guess I should talk about this here, since this is a suggestion.
Here goes:

We could have here on HBH a new type of challenge, something like a contest.

1. Who designs the best application that does whatever task (the task or purpose of the application would be specified)

2. There would be a deadline for application submission.

3. Points will be awarded based on:
- User friendliness - as in "ease of use"
- Speed (how fast does the application complete a specific task)
- Lines of code (fewer lines, more points)
- Graphic design (maybe this could be included in user friendliness)
- Maybe even portability

4. The applicatrion that accumulates the most points wins the contest, and the prize is a number of HBH challenge or rank points, based on the complexity of the task. There could be a system with places 1, 2 and 3..

5. I know that this could mean a big load on the administrators, but maybe there can be formed something like a jury of 10 trusty persons.. or something like that. I'm willing to actively participate on this if you guys will approve it.

Oh oh, maybe you can make a poll.. let's vote who wants this and who doesn't (it's just an ideea Smile )

Thank you, and feel free to post suggestions about the point-awarding system or anything else, as this is an ideea that came to me just now, like Flash Grin


I think it's an OK idea. There is was actually plans for this kind of competition back then, but I have been unable to reach a conclusion on what kind of application people would want.

I was thinking something more security-oriented type of applications, why don't you make a trojan? Maybe you can show folks your mad pascal skills Grin .

However, I think for us to be able to grade according to "Lines of Code" we need to set some rules on the features the application can have, since some applications might have more lines because they added more features and what not.

Maybe, you can come out with a list of features the you think the application needs. All the other criterias are good, but another question is whether the application should be shown just in script (for the judges to compile) or a ready-made exe file?


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Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

cyber-guard
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Posted on 05-11-10 10:14
I really like the idea, there are some thing you would need to accomodate for in the rules though, like perl one liners Smile
Secondly, I would rather start on something more basic, like irc server, or simple firewall; then define some features that it needs to have, and see how people implement them. This way more people would be able to participate.

fuser wrote:
Maybe, you can come out with a list of features the you think the application needs. All the other criterias are good, but another question is whether the application should be shown just in script (for the judges to compile) or a ready-made exe file?


How would you then judge the code, if you had just the exe, not to mention that this is security website (or so I thought), so running pre-compiled exe would be just stupid... Also what about interpreted languages, I mean yeah you can compile them to executables, but usually you have to deal with compatibility issues etc, and what's the point really.


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RE: New Contest suggestion


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Posted on 05-11-10 10:37
cyber-guard wrote:
I really like the idea, there are some thing you would need to accomodate for in the rules though, like perl one liners Smile

Or any other language one liners.
#include<code_that_does_whatever_needs_to_be_done>
There, C/C++ one liner.


Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

fuser
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Posted on 05-11-10 11:05
cyber-guard wrote:

fuser wrote:
Maybe, you can come out with a list of features the you think the application needs. All the other criterias are good, but another question is whether the application should be shown just in script (for the judges to compile) or a ready-made exe file?


How would you then judge the code, if you had just the exe, not to mention that this is security website (or so I thought), so running pre-compiled exe would be just stupid... Also what about interpreted languages, I mean yeah you can compile them to executables, but usually you have to deal with compatibility issues etc, and what's the point really.


Wow. Has it ever occurred to you that I can ask for BOTH source and exe? I just want to see how it runs (without the need of an interpreter running in the background) efficiently. But I get your concerns about platform compatibility, and since it can be quite a hassle for the coder itself to make a bin and an exe by themselves.


img.userbarz.com/51/10006.png
img.userbarz.com/146/29144.gif
img.userbarz.com/99/19602.jpg
img.userbarz.com/4/600.png
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Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

spyware
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Posted on 05-11-10 12:52
You want to run third-party unverified, untrusted code on your machines :'). Surely you jest.



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
“Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert
[/s

Edited by spyware on 05-11-10 12:53
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Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

techb
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Posted on 05-11-10 17:18
I think just having the source would be good enough. Then who ever wants to test it, could compile it them selves.

Or, you pick a certain language for the challenge. New challenges could use a different language.


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RE: New Contest suggestion


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Posted on 05-11-10 17:53
Maybe write a crsf worm with the least amount of code?


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RE: New Contest suggestion

cyber-guard
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Posted on 05-11-10 21:47
COM wrote:
cyber-guard wrote:
I really like the idea, there are some thing you would need to accomodate for in the rules though, like perl one liners Smile

Or any other language one liners.
#include<code_that_does_whatever_needs_to_be_done>
There, C/C++ one liner.


True, used perl just because love it Smile

fuser wrote:
Wow. Has it ever occurred to you that I can ask for BOTH source and exe? I just want to see how it runs (without the need of an interpreter running in the background) efficiently. But I get your concerns about platform compatibility, and since it can be quite a hassle for the coder itself to make a bin and an exe by themselves.


Yes it has, but has it even occurred to you that if you have the source, you shouldn't need the executable, since you can compile it yourself. But anyway this is a stupid argument about a stupid thing. I know what you meant, but the fact is that pre-compiled executable even with source is not exactly a good idea...

As for the idea above, I do like it, either csrf or xss worm. This would however mean setting up an environment, at least that's what I'd like to see for this kind of challenge.


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Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

stealth-
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Posted on 05-11-10 22:26
spyware wrote:
You want to run third-party unverified, untrusted code on your machines :'Wink. Surely you jest.


VM's can solve that quiet nicely, which might be necessary anyways depending on the platform the competition is aimed at. Depending on the situation, it does make sense to ask for a pre-compiled executio able. I know I personally wouldn't want to install a fuckload of libraries just to wait for the code to compile.

I'm for this competition idea, sounds fun.


The irony of man's condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation; but it is life itself which awakens it, and so we must shrink from being fully alive.
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Edited by stealth- on 05-11-10 22:27
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Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

fuser
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Posted on 06-11-10 15:24
actually, roelof did provide me with a rarely used server that we can use for this competition. Once a category is agreed on, the server will be customised to meet the competition's criteria.

so, anyone has suggestions on what competitors should work on?


img.userbarz.com/51/10006.png
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img.userbarz.com/99/19602.jpg
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RE: New Contest suggestion

techb
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Posted on 07-11-10 03:52
How about a webspider. Or a program that makes a sketch of the given image, like some phones have. Or a program that renders a graph (or other variable driven graphic) of the traffic on a certain site.


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RE: New Contest suggestion

fuser
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Posted on 07-11-10 05:09
I think I like the first two suggestion from techb's post.

I think I want at least five other categories, so maybe xss or crsf worm could be considered.

Any more suggestions? After we can reach a conclusion on at least five applications all contestants can agree on, maybe I'll get an admin to make a poll to decide which one the public likes best, and then the competition can be started.`


img.userbarz.com/51/10006.png
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img.userbarz.com/4/600.png
img.userbarz.com/45/8814.gif
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RE: New Contest suggestion

yours31f
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Posted on 07-11-10 05:11
I have a c++ script in the code section that draws HBH in paint...


Debugging is what programmers do to beta software to make it take up more room on your hard drive if it is running too efficiently.


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RE: New Contest suggestion

fuser
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Posted on 07-11-10 06:07
MoshBat wrote:
fuser wrote:
I think I like the first two suggestion from techb's post.

I think I want at least five other categories, so maybe xss or crsf worm could be considered.

Any more suggestions? After we can reach a conclusion on at least five applications all contestants can agree on, maybe I'll get an admin to make a poll to decide which one the public likes best, and then the competition can be started.`

Or do them all one after the other, or even at the same time.


yeah, maybe we can do the security-oriented application first, then the drawing application. I think we should do it one after the other, instead of doing it simulatneously since you're either going to need more judges or the judges of the competition will have more submissions to look into.


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RE: New Contest suggestion

fuser
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Posted on 08-11-10 10:53
So I'm considering Moshbat as a judge. Anyone interested in volunteering for this competition? Any more contest ideas, or any more suggestions on rules, or just want to be a judge, or provide a good testing environment?


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RE: New Contest suggestion

TommyCat
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Posted on 08-11-10 16:49
techb wrote:
I think just having the source would be good enough. Then who ever wants to test it, could compile it them selves.

Or, you pick a certain language for the challenge. New challenges could use a different language.


Good Ideea.. Language-oriented challenges.. or maybe we can have a list of language that we can use.

For example: VB - no extra points
Pascal - 50 extra points
C++ - 40 extra points
Visual C - 20 extra points
Python (GUI) - 50 extra points
Python(command line application) - 30 extra points
and that's it for this challenge

Next challenge:
Python - 30 extra points
PHP - 10 extra points
etc




It's the final CountDowN
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RE: New Contest suggestion

TommyCat
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Posted on 08-11-10 17:11
MoshBat wrote:
fuser wrote:
So I'm considering Moshbat as a judge. Anyone interested in volunteering for this competition? Any more contest ideas, or any more suggestions on rules, or just want to be a judge, or provide a good testing environment?

What of the judges participating? I know, I know, they could easily cheat, but there are ways of checking.
And what of the testing environments? I myself have a quad core, but other judges/testers may not, programs optimised for multi-threading would be at an advantage on my machine, but not necessarily on others.
Platform may be important, too. For example, if a program was designed for use on a Windows 32 bit machine, it could be problematic on a Linux platform, and switching to a Windows OS may mean it runs slower than on Linux/Windows 64bit. We should probably establish an OS and architecture to use.
For speed tests, how many times should they be run to gain an average? Depending on the number of submissions and competitions, I'm willing to run speed tests for every competition multiple times (at least 100, but I don't have a problem with going into the 1000's), if a competition requires so.

One more thing: Assuming multiple languages, judges should specify a preference or strongest language. e.g, judge #1 is best at Perl, so send all the Perl ones their way for examination.

I should probably hit you up on an IM to discuss this.


Judges specialised on different Languages is a good ideea
As you said.. one judge for Perl, one for VB, one for Pascal, one for Python.
Or.. One for Python, Perl, PHP, one for C, C++, Visual C, one for BASIC, VB5 and VB6, VisualBasic
etc


And Now.. I had a little time to think about a first challenge.
Here Goes.

Challenge starts on November 12 2010, 00 Hours GMT time.
Deadline for submission: November 22 2010, 2400 Hours GMT Time.
Day 0 Submission = 100 extra points
Day 1 Submission = 90 extra points
and so on (-10 extra points for each day that passes)

Programming Languages allowed:
Python - 30 extra points
C or C++ - 25 extra points
VB or VC - 20 extra points

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Challenge:

Design a DBMS application (DataBase management system) that one can use to create, design or modify a SQL Database (SQL v2 or SQL v3)

One must be able to create the database, create new tables, modify existing tables (insert, delete, update) without any knowledge of SQL (Structured Query Language)

One must be able to insert pictures into the database, and also extract them from the DB and view them (picture preview function rewarded with 10 extra points)

For advanced users of this application, there must be a "Create Query" Tool. - just to write the query.

Winner gets 120 HBH points
2nd place gets 80 HBH points
3rd place gets 40 HBH points
------------------------------------------------------------------

So.. what do you say? I know that this may not be a complete description, so I'm waiting for suggenstions.

PS: Dates are not real Smile let's figure out when to start this one Smile



It's the final CountDowN

Edited by TommyCat on 08-11-10 17:17
Author

RE: New Contest suggestion

spyware
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Posted on 08-11-10 19:03
Turns out hacker competitions are a borefest. Who knew?



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
“Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert
[/s
http://bitsofspy.net
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