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RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
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Posted on 19-10-08 16:30
COM wrote:
I'm glad to see that Zephyr has fully understood what I meant with the system, I'd like to summarize it though for everyone.
The percentage based system would still give points as it has until now, there's no need to change challenge points for it or anything of the likes. Upcoming challenges will have points addressed to them as usual and the only thing that would change is that instead of manually having to move/add ranks, we'd have the borders change automatically as needed when new challenges are implemented.
I thought it as an obvious thing to have a page displaying the maximum amount of available points and what the point boundaries are currently for the different ranks.
I don't understand the argument about not having to complete basic things to move up in rank, that's just as valid now as it'd be then. Nobody is forcing you to complete the challenges in order, so you can skip them as you please. If it was referring to the restriction of having to have completed basic 1 or having x amount of points to post comments, etc. then since the points would still be in use, nothing states that those things would have to disappear.
Furthermore as Zephyr correctly pointed out, you actually need to do a lot more to advance in ranks with a percentage based system than with the current point based one. To a certain extent it'll be easier to advance in the beginning, however the later ranks will be much more difficult to get to meaning that if you want a high rank you can't exactly go around skipping everything.

Everything that is using points or anything of the likes will still function as it has until now, all that'd differ is the rank calculation.


Fair enough Smile It seems that you have valid points. Again don't get me wrong I'm not against the system, I was just trying to argue the system as a training Smile Anyway I guess that most people if not everybody will agree that the percentage system would be better, but main issue is still is who, and mainly when would it be implemented.


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

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spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

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RE: God rank to easy?


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Posted on 19-10-08 16:38
clone4 wrote:
don't get me wrong I'm not against the system, I was just trying to argue the system as a training Smile


You did well in that, without sensible questioning there will never be improvement. Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes: "blind acceptance is a sign of stupid fools who stand in line".


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RE: God rank to easy?

Uber0n
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Posted on 19-10-08 21:26
Conclusion: This is a really good idea, and as with most other good ideas on this site it will probably never get implemented. Someone will bump this thread a few weeks after people have stopped replying and then it'll all be forgotten.


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RE: God rank to easy?


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Posted on 19-10-08 21:31
Uber0n wrote:
Conclusion: This is a really good idea, and as with most other good ideas on this site it will probably never get implemented. Someone will bump this thread a few weeks after people have stopped replying and then it'll all be forgotten.

If I have anything to say about it, it will... I have the results that COM came up with saved locally and I will be pushing for this (as well as a few other updates) to get done. We'll see how that goes.


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RE: God rank to easy?

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Posted on 19-10-08 22:38
It's strange how the whole thread was able to be revived by one good, well-thought out post. Thank you COM. Even though points don't show anything about skill, they're still a fun little game to play. I agree with the whole percentage idea.

As of right now, only two developers has a project listed. I'll see if I can convince the others to accept the idea. I wish I could start working on it, but I can only do so much when all I'm allowed to do is moderate the forum and check submissions...

[edit]Just checked the development page. There are 2 projects now.[/edit]


i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh11/zanimabean/Zim.png


Edited by Futility on 19-10-08 22:43
Futility91@hotmail.com Futility91
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RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
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Posted on 19-10-08 22:47
Futility wrote:
It's strange how the whole thread was able to be revived by one good, well-thought out post. Thank you COM. Even though points don't show anything about skill, they're still a fun little game to play. I agree with the whole percentage idea.

As of right now, only one developer has a project listed. I'll see if I can convince the others to accept the idea. I wish I could start working on it, but I can only do so much when all I'm allowed to do is moderate the forum and check submissions...


I find it really annoying, I mean really if it wasn't for Zeph, the idea would probably just be put down to a list, and later forgotten, as Uberon pointed out. I don't understand why HBH doesn't employ more forum moderators, submission checkers etc. because there is enough 'reasonable' people regularly here; and then admins and developers could truly and solely aim on improvement and development of the site.


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

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RE: God rank to easy?

spyware
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Posted on 19-10-08 22:54
clone4 wrote:
I don't understand why HBH doesn't employ more forum moderators, submission checkers etc. because there is enough 'reasonable' people regularly here; and then admins and developers could truly and solely aim on improvement and development of the site.


Verbalize your thoughts on this matter and send 'em over to Cheese in a PM.



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RE: God rank to easy?


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Posted on 19-10-08 22:55
clone4 wrote:
I find it really annoying, I mean really if it wasn't for Zeph, the idea would probably just be put down to a list, and later forgotten, as Uberon pointed out.

I won't take credit for that, nor would Futility. It's the members of this community that contributed their thoughts to the idea, and they kept it at the top of the list. They just need to be heard every now and then. Smile


I don't understand why HBH doesn't employ more forum moderators, submission checkers etc. because there is enough 'reasonable' people regularly here; and then admins and developers could truly and solely aim on improvement and development of the site.

I challenge you to name just 5 that aren't already staff, excluding yourself.


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RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
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Posted on 19-10-08 23:20
spyware wrote:
clone4 wrote:
I don't understand why HBH doesn't employ more forum moderators, submission checkers etc. because there is enough 'reasonable' people regularly here; and then admins and developers could truly and solely aim on improvement and development of the site.


Verbalize your thoughts on this matter and send 'em over to Cheese in a PM.


I don't think my 'voice' would be of enough significance...

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
clone4 wrote:
I find it really annoying, I mean really if it wasn't for Zeph, the idea would probably just be put down to a list, and later forgotten, as Uberon pointed out.

I won't take credit for that, nor would Futility. It's the members of this community that contributed their thoughts to the idea, and they kept it at the top of the list. They just need to be heard every now and then. Smile


Didn't mean it like this, the thing is that this issue has already been discussed ages ago, but nobody like COM wasn't able to come up with the basis for system and nobody like you or Futility weren't able to put it through. I guess my point was that if you want something on HBH you really need to back it up and fight for it...


I challenge you to name just 5 that aren't already staff, excluding yourself.


*cough* lets have a look, just for instance:
COM
darkmatis
jjbutler
stdio
Uberon
ynori7
skathgh420
Infam0us

I know pretty random names, and some of them doesn't hang around here that often, but it should serve just as an example...


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

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spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

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RE: God rank to easy?


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Posted on 19-10-08 23:28
clone4 wrote:
*cough* lets have a look, just for instance:
COM
darkmatis
jjbutler
stdio
Uberon
ynori7
skathgh420
Infam0us


spyware
SwartMumba
moshbat...
although if moshbat got power over the forums he'd probably spend all his time looking up every post made by yours31f and delete them.


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RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
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Posted on 19-10-08 23:29
didn't list spy and mosh, just because I think they don't need additional rights to guard the forums Grin


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<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
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Posted on 19-10-08 23:33
clone4 wrote:
I don't think my 'voice' would be of enough significance...

And that's why it has none.

clone4 wrote:
Didn't mean it like this, the thing is that this issue has already been discussed ages ago, but nobody like COM wasn't able to come up with the basis for system and nobody like you or Futility weren't able to put it through. I guess my point was that if you want something on HBH you really need to back it up and fight for it...

Well, it was deeply discussed at that time, too. Plans for how to implement it were discussed as well; the community of the past was 500% as involved as the one we have now. However, you are right... if you really want something to happen here, you have to stand by it. At the time, no one cared because it was a trivial change.

I challenge you to name just 5 that aren't already staff, excluding yourself.

clone4 wrote:
*cough* lets have a look, just for instance:
COM
darkmatis
jjbutler
stdio
Uberon
ynori7
skathgh420
Infam0us

4 of them are mature enough, 2 of those know HBH well from being here for so long, but only 1 of those is maybe active enough to do any good. It's easy to list names from all of your friends, but it's harder to justify what good they'd actually do and how often. If you can't put in enough effort as a normal user, there's no point in you being a mod / admin. Thought that might help to illustrate it better.

COM wrote:
if moshbat got power over the forums he'd probably spend all his time looking up every post made by yours31f and delete them.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Pfft




Edited by on 19-10-08 23:35
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RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
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Posted on 19-10-08 23:57
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
And that's why it has none.


Ouch ! Smile But do you really believe that as a indivdual I would really initiate some major changes... True that I could be more pro-active but right now I have different priorities Smile


4 of them are mature enough, 2 of those know HBH well from being here for so long, but only 1 of those is maybe active enough to do any good. It's easy to list names from all of your friends, but it's harder to justify what good they'd actually do and how often. If you can't put in enough effort as a normal user, there's no point in you being a mod / admin. Thought that might help to illustrate it better.


It wasn't supposed to be any kind of nominations, by that means I imply myself. I still think that there is both enough quantity and quality of 'material' for at least few mods. Problem is that the generation of 'senior members' I was growing up in is kinda dying out and there are just few still stay here. So now the active base is more and more made of newer members... ( please the sentence above is of course supposed to be metaphorical, despite most of you inferred it, I'm still pointing it out for the 'slower ones'Smile)

COM wrote:
if moshbat got power over the forums he'd probably spend all his time looking up every post made by yours31f and delete them.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Pfft


GrinGrin maybe little harsh, he is really trying to be useful lately Smile


edit: realized we may have drifted too much off the original topic :vamp:


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<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl



Edited by clone4 on 19-10-08 23:59
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RE: God rank to easy?


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Posted on 20-10-08 00:19
clone4 wrote:
Ouch ! Smile But do you really believe that as a indivdual I would really initiate some major changes... True that I could be more pro-active but right now I have different priorities Smile

The truth hurts... only those that hide from it. Do I believe that an individual can make major differences in how things are? Of course. I am an individual with that same goal. It is your priorities (as well as a number of other people's) that keeps you and them from being active influences in that way. Not a bad thing... just a truth.

It wasn't supposed to be any kind of nominations, by that means I imply myself. I still think that there is both enough quantity and quality of 'material' for at least few mods.

See above.

Problem is that the generation of 'senior members' I was growing up in is kinda dying out and there are just few still stay here. So now the active base is more and more made of newer members... ( please the sentence above is of course supposed to be metaphorical, despite most of you inferred it, I'm still pointing it out for the 'slower ones'Smile)

That is a problem... with a solution. It just takes time. Smile

GrinGrin maybe little harsh, he is really trying to be useful lately Smile

He needs to be reminded of that constantly.

You are right, though... we have wandered quite a bit from the main topic. Regardless, the main topic has been discussed and decided by people who actually care. I'm not sure there's much left to say on it.


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RE: God rank to easy?

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Posted on 20-10-08 00:35
This thread has gotten quite a bit longer since the last time I looked at it, so I can't guarantee I wont just be reiterating something already said.

I agree with clone4 that a lot of good could come from a more heavily moderated hbh. There are constantly worthless posts, pointless threads (not even 'hacking' related), ancient thread revivals, shit articles (maybe due to current admins being overworked and not taking time to really read them before accepting them). I think these problems can be helped (not solved. They can never be solved) by creating more moderators. More people dedicated to moderating the forums would mean the admins could spend more of their time working on challeges and submissions rather than the forums.

However, we should also be aware that the more heavily moderated the forums are, the less freedom the people have. Moderators have to be trustworthy and have the best interesting of the site in mind (and that's a hard thing to gauge).

Here's a radical idea. I'm not saying it's a good one, but it just poped into my head, so I'll throw it out there. It may generate some interest among the site members if we were to hold an election. Each member can vote for the person they want as moderator (there would probably have to be a list of candidates chosen by the current admins). This could ensure that mod is a representative of the people. Probably wouldn't work, but it's an idea.


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Posted on 20-10-08 00:49
Your post is full and I've already quoted quite a bit, so I'll just do this one from memory. A few more moderators would not hurt, but the fundamental problem is the ease with which the forums can be crapped up, not the lack of moderation. As for the article situation, it will be remedied in due time; it's already on my list.

An open election involving the community is a grand idea to me... Community-appointed staff should (but cannot be guaranteed to) uphold the interests of the community fairly and objectively. I would create a thread to let people start deciding a list to choose from, followed by a poll for members to vote... but, if i did that, I would be implying that it would have some effect. As just a member of staff (and not the owner of the site), I cannot say that such a thing would give the "winners" that chance. Thus, it's best left alone for now, but kept in mind for later. I wish I could do more.

<Call to Arms>
The main way for the community to aim to limit and inhibit these problems is to make public opinion... public. Make the principles of behavior and proper contribution public, as the mentor request guidelines and article tips have been by spyware. Whenever possible, set the example you wish to see in your community. No one is powerless to make a difference.
</Call to Arms>


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Posted on 20-10-08 01:08
I can only assume that moderators are currently picked by how much they do for the community and how generally approved they seem to be amongst the members. I wouldn't dislike a change to the system, but I don't see why it should change either. If moderators do a good job they should be able to put forward suggestions for the ones they consider good enough to also take up that responsibility. If the moderators choose the candidates such as ynori7 proposed then voting or no voting it'd basically still be up to the moderators who we are allowed to choose from.
Let moderators suggest candidates and keep an eye on them, just as with all the moderators, nobody gets full power at once as far as I've seen. If people have a complaint about the moderator let them say it and if they supply a good enough reason or enough back them up then just demote the moderator in question.
If we let the members appoint moderators we run into the risk of running into countless "zomg me" posts. I personally don't worry about that, but I don't know if moderators would want to wade throuh that shit.


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Posted on 20-10-08 01:39
COM wrote:
I can only assume that moderators are currently picked by how much they do for the community and how generally approved they seem to be amongst the members.

Honestly, I don't know the exact answer to this one, so I will just leave it up to the imagination. That statement above, though... is not always the case. Possibly not even often.


If moderators do a good job they should be able to put forward suggestions for the ones they consider good enough to also take up that responsibility. If the moderators choose the candidates such as ynori7 proposed then voting or no voting it'd basically still be up to the moderators who we are allowed to choose from.

Staff, staff... not moderators. Staff. Moderators are only a part of that. Also, the suggestion idea doesn't (and probably won't) work that way... ultimately, it has to be influenced by the current staff, or the choice of new staff could very well break the community in the case of careless decision-making (which I believe you alluded to).

Ultimately, it boils down to this: Staff members come and go as their time and devotion allow. Without those two things to contribute to the community, a person here is not qualified to be a mod or an admin. Period.


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RE: God rank to easy?

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Posted on 20-10-08 12:47
Now we're talking :D it actually sounds like something is finally going to happen ^^ I've been looking forward to this.

Code
HBH -> More (good) staff -> Content with higher quality -> More activity -> HBH++





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RE: God rank to easy?


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Posted on 20-10-08 14:28
Uber0n wrote:
Now we're talking Grin it actually sounds like something is finally going to happen ^^ I've been looking forward to this.

Well, I will be the first to say: Don't believe it until you see it. Hopefully, though, you will be seeing it pretty soon. Smile

Oh, and you made it into my sig with that one. Wink


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