Follow us on Twitter!
Ideas are far more powerful than guns.
Thursday, April 24, 2014
Navigation
Home
HellBoundHackers Main:
HellBoundHackers Find:
HellBoundHackers Information:
Learn
Communicate
Submit
Shop
Challenges
HellBoundHackers Exploit:
HellBoundHackers Programming:
HellBoundHackers Think:
HellBoundHackers Track:
HellBoundHackers Patch:
HellBoundHackers Other:
HellBoundHackers Need Help?
Other
Members Online
Total Online: 17
Guests Online: 16
Members Online: 1

Registered Members: 82890
Newest Member: ByteofPython
Latest Articles
View Thread

HellBound Hackers | HellBound Hackers | Comments and Suggestions

Page 5 of 12 << < 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > >>
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 21-10-08 20:20
yours31f wrote:
I think we should remove all except the basics. Other than that, you should learn the advanced concepts, not get spoilers.

Basic challenges do not cover all of the concepts needed for the more involved challenges. At the very least, you would need to have Basic and JS.

clone4 wrote:
I totally agree. However it seems to me that removing all the realistic challenge will cause absolute collapse in forums, because to be honest I think some of them are little too unrealistic to be solved the proper way, without any hint.

I was only referring to the article content. The forums, as far as I'm concerned, could stay as they are for specific challenge help.


And if you did so, instead of articles, there would be sooner or later developed 'database' of forum posts that would give the hints out. What I would suggest is remove all the articles for the challenges mentioned above, but for realistic challenges, I would provide some general help, like a general FAQ for each challenge, where you could check for example if there is any hint for one particular thing, without spoiling the rest... I know it might still undernine the standart a little, but I think it is a good compromise, it will prevent all the people starting hundred new threads a day, and avoid most of the 'point hunters'

That is a very good point. This is where standards for exactly what a spoiler is composed of are needed. At what point does an article cross the line? How much should be said? Theory works great for inspiring ideas, but concrete support is the only way to get the ball rolling.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?

yours31f
Member



Posts: 1678
Location: Dallas Texas
Joined: 27.04.07
Rank:
Elite
Posted on 21-10-08 20:26
I think we should just moderate the forums a little more, not remove them. After all, this is a major part of this site.

As far as the articles, I can agree with keeping the JS.


Debugging is what programmers do to beta software to make it take up more room on your hard drive if it is running too efficiently.


img259.imageshack.us/img259/3713/sigr.png

yours31f@live.com yours31f@yahoo.com rpwd.info
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 21-10-08 20:39
... Who said anything about removing the forums altogether? The only parts that were being questioned were the forum areas involving challenges and, as far as I'm concerned, they can stay (as stated in the previous post). Stricter moderation of them is, of course, critical for such a solution. So, yes, we seem to agree.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
Member



Posts: 586
Location: He is back and he's bad!
Joined: 25.11.07
Rank:
Mad User
Posted on 21-10-08 21:26
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
... Who said anything about removing the forums altogether? The only parts that were being questioned were the forum areas involving challenges and, as far as I'm concerned, they can stay (as stated in the previous post). Stricter moderation of them is, of course, critical for such a solution. So, yes, we seem to agree.


I guess I implied it by my comment a little, unintentionally though Smile Anyway say over next week(holidays yay!), I would go through forums and articles, and compose such FAQ for first 2-3 real challenges, then finally with something factual in our hands we can discuss that proposal...
Of course anybody would be welcomed to make such thing for any of the challenges, don't forget more you contribute, more and faster you should see the improvement

As for the JS challenges, I wouldn't care if articles were removed as well, I mean point of the these challenges is for everybody to understand what the code does, and then develop method, how he could take advantage of it. Only if you understand the code, there isn't much to give away, so people would be forced to actually go to w3schools and learn JS in proper way


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl



Edited by clone4 on 21-10-08 21:31
clone_4@hotmail.com
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 21-10-08 21:43
clone4 wrote:
Anyway say over next week(holidays yay!), I would go through forums and articles, and compose such FAQ for first 2-3 real challenges, then finally with something factual in our hands we can discuss that proposal...

That would be fantastic. The more ammunition and proof we have for a positive change, the more likely it will be that we can push it through to actually happen.


Of course anybody would be welcomed to make such thing for any of the challenges, don't forget more you contribute, more and faster you should see the improvement

Exactly... don't just whine about it; give solid and useful supporting arguments and information. We're a community: we change as one.


As for the JS challenges, I wouldn't care if articles were removed as well, I mean point of the these challenges is for everybody to understand what the code does, and then develop method, how he could take advantage of it. Only if you understand the code, there isn't much to give away, so people would be forced to actually go to w3schools and learn JS in proper way

I agree with that as well; however, more of the JS challenges revolve around their manipulation of cookies and such. Less is reading the source, really. We can leave JS in the air, as it is really not critical. The "more serious" challenge areas are more pressing.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?

Uber0n
Member



Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden‭‮
Joined: 13.06.06
Rank:
Hacker Level 3
Posted on 21-10-08 22:02
The only risk I can see with removing the challenge forums and articles is that the spoilers sent via PM:s would probably increase - but I suppose it'd still be worth it.

Also, I'd like to thank all of you guys who trust in me and my work (page 4 of this thread) :happy: I would definately spend more time on HBH if I had something to do when I'm logged in (else than replying PM:s), meaning that I could increase my activity if that's what you want.

If (and I'm just saying if) you'd like me to help improve the site, I'd just be glad to do so. One thing I could help with would be to go through the articles (and possibly also the code bank) and remove the lowest quality content. I enjoy reading and I can see the difference between shit and informative information when I see it Wink


img230.imageshack.us/img230/724/uber0nsig3hj6.gif
http://uber0n.web. . .
Nope http://uber0n.webs.com/
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 21-10-08 22:20
Uber0n wrote:
The only risk I can see with removing the challenge forums and articles is that the spoilers sent via PM:s would probably increase - but I suppose it'd still be worth it.

Sounds manageable to me. At that point, it's a small-scale issue.

Uber0n wrote:
One thing I could help with would be to go through the articles (and possibly also the code bank) and remove the lowest quality content. I enjoy reading and I can see the difference between shit and informative information when I see it Wink

Quit ruining my surprises. :happy: Seriously, though, that quote shows a part of why the old members left. How can you build a mansion of gold on top of a sea of shit?




Edited by on 21-10-08 22:23
Author

RE: God rank to easy?

yours31f
Member



Posts: 1678
Location: Dallas Texas
Joined: 27.04.07
Rank:
Elite
Posted on 21-10-08 22:30
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
Sounds manageable to me. At that point, it's a small-scale issue.

Or since we are talking cheating, and we want people to learn, Why not make the challenge passwords dynamic?

Zephyr_Pure wrote:

Quit ruining my surprises. :happy: Seriously, though, that quote shows a part of why the old members left. How can you build a mansion of gold on top of a sea of shit?

Easy if you like standing knee high in a shit creek. Which happens to lead you directly to Timbuktu Africa.


Debugging is what programmers do to beta software to make it take up more room on your hard drive if it is running too efficiently.


img259.imageshack.us/img259/3713/sigr.png

yours31f@live.com yours31f@yahoo.com rpwd.info
Author

RE: God rank to easy?

Uber0n
Member



Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden‭‮
Joined: 13.06.06
Rank:
Hacker Level 3
Posted on 21-10-08 22:42
Uber0n wrote:
One thing I could help with would be to go through the articles (and possibly also the code bank) and remove the lowest quality content. I enjoy reading and I can see the difference between shit and informative information when I see it Wink

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
Quit ruining my surprises. :happy: Seriously, though, that quote shows a part of why the old members left.

What's so surprising about that? Pfft


img230.imageshack.us/img230/724/uber0nsig3hj6.gif
http://uber0n.web. . .

Edited by Uber0n on 21-10-08 22:42
Nope http://uber0n.webs.com/
Author

RE: God rank to easy?

clone4
Member



Posts: 586
Location: He is back and he's bad!
Joined: 25.11.07
Rank:
Mad User
Posted on 21-10-08 22:44
Uber0n wrote:
The only risk I can see with removing the challenge forums and articles is that the spoilers sent via PM:s would probably increase - but I suppose it'd still be worth it.


Well it could, but if we will promote the standart actively, hopefully less and less members should be attracted by this kind of point hunting.


Also, I'd like to thank all of you guys who trust in me and my work (page 4 of this thread) :happy: I would definately spend more time on HBH if I had something to do when I'm logged in (else than replying PM:s), meaning that I could increase my activity if that's what you want.

And everybody here would really appreaciate it.


If (and I'm just saying if) you'd like me to help improve the site, I'd just be glad to do so. One thing I could help with would be to go through the articles (and possibly also the code bank) and remove the lowest quality content. I enjoy reading and I can see the difference between shit and informative information when I see it Wink


This actually has been needed for ages, and yes it would be absolutely briliant. We just have to wait until it starts to 'roll'.

Also as Uber0n mentioned code bank, couple of things came to mind; I think that in current state, it is safe to say that the code bank is crap. Chance to find something useful in all that rubbish is really low. I think that code bank should be implemented in better way, subcategories, give priority to more common languages, and gather the rare ones in one 'other' sub-category. Include 'begginer' section, where newbies can get their short pieces of code commented. Implement 'download code', and most downloaded code/best rated will be displayed on the main page. Make competitions, code golfing, code optimisation etc. and then make the code public, so people can learn from that....

I know it is a lot of stuff at once, but better to present as much as possible, with low 'implementation rate', rather then just leave it as it is....


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

clone_4@hotmail.com
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 21-10-08 22:45
Uber0n wrote:
What's so surprising about that? Pfft

I'd imagine the surprising part would be that I started on the code bank last Friday and I will have a complete list of removals by this Friday. Smile

yours31f wrote:
Or since we are talking cheating, and we want people to learn, Why not make the challenge passwords dynamic?

Not all of the challenges have passwords and, for the ones that do, it would involve changing the challenges themselves to be dynamic. This is not feasible at this time, since the method of gain expressed in time needed does not justify the actual gain.

yours31f wrote:
Easy if you like standing knee high in a shit creek. Which happens to lead you directly to Timbuktu Africa.

What if you're standing in over 2 years worth of cumulative shit that never got swept up? Methinks that would extend well beyond your knees.




Edited by on 21-10-08 22:49
Author

RE: God rank to easy?

Uber0n
Member



Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden‭‮
Joined: 13.06.06
Rank:
Hacker Level 3
Posted on 21-10-08 22:57
clone4 wrote:
Also as Uber0n mentioned code bank, couple of things came to mind; I think that in current state, it is safe to say that the code bank is crap. Chance to find something useful in all that rubbish is really low. I think that code bank should be implemented in better way, subcategories, give priority to more common languages, and gather the rare ones in one 'other' sub-category. Include 'begginer' section, where newbies can get their short pieces of code commented. Implement 'download code', and most downloaded code/best rated will be displayed on the main page. Make competitions, code golfing, code optimisation etc. and then make the code public, so people can learn from that....

I know it is a lot of stuff at once, but better to present as much as possible, with low 'implementation rate', rather then just leave it as it is....

Very well said ^^

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
I'd imagine the surprising part would be that I started on the code bank last Friday and I will have a complete list of removals by this Friday. Smile

Haha, awesome! Grin


img230.imageshack.us/img230/724/uber0nsig3hj6.gif
http://uber0n.web. . .
Nope http://uber0n.webs.com/
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 00:54
Uber0n wrote:
Also, I'd like to thank all of you guys who trust in me and my work (page 4 of this thread) :happy: I would definately spend more time on HBH if I had something to do when I'm logged in (else than replying PM:s), meaning that I could increase my activity if that's what you want.


You have helped me out alot when it came to learning filter evasion with XSS and how CSRF works. You're my "turn to guy" for that line of work.

I would gladly help any way I can whether it be helping go through all the old threads and cleaning it up or helping out with the code bank.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 04:35
I don't see too much need to put the code bank into sub categories with beginner and advanced content. But if we're going to suggest that idea, let's go a bit more in depth on the qualities that should come with it.

The code bank should be for somewhat useful code and not just something you did as a beginner to feel good or experiment. This means (at least for the C++ side of it) no more bloody calculators, no more awful cmd emulators that consist of "cin>>x; system(x);" and lastly; no more things that have anything of the description "heres sumthin to annoy n00bs/ppl/ur neiburs cat". The code bank is not there to be filled with stupid shit to annoy people, it's there to have some good and useful code.
As for the beginner section for it, as we've seen most people when they have a problem they use the forums, as is encouraged to ask for help. This could extend not only to problematic code, but to any code that people who're starting out are wondering about. This'd also be easier in the sense that the forums are always kept updated on the main page, which you can't say about the code bank, leading to the poster of the code (and anyone else) seeing how many replies he's gotten (if any) when he logs in.

However, if you would put it into sub categories then I would suggest, as has been suggested before and should be the natural order, that the code bank is displayed just like the articles on the main page. That might not show the latest replies, however it'd still leave it more available to comment and see new submissions. You could even separate it into two sections where you show the latest beginner and another where you show the latest advanced, or a hybrid, making it like the forum part but for code instead. Meaning that the beginner section would have the same latest replied on top function that the forums currently have for those who put it up to more easily see what help they have received, as the more advanced are not posting it to get help on it.
Together with the displaying on the main page it has of course also been previously suggested that by comparison to the articles, a person should also have their submitted code displayed with a link on their profile. Seems a fair enough implementation to me, however not very high priority, so just thought I'd mention it to keep it in mind.

Just some quick thoughts about the code bank and of course, I also support Uber0n. Get your Uber0n pins and banners here, vote Uber0n!

PS: For the part about removing the content about challenges that aren't meant to have in depth explanations or are a bit too helpful, there shouldn't be any real downside to it. PMs with spoilers might increase? Well the odds are that you can find it spoiler complete with answers and everything somewhere out on the internet anyway, just a googlesearch away. The point of it is just to remove it from the site itself, the open, public part of it anyway, it's an attitude thing.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 05:21
COM wrote:
The code bank should be for somewhat useful code and not just something you did as a beginner to feel good or experiment. This means (at least for the C++ side of it) no more bloody calculators, no more awful cmd emulators that consist of "cin>>x; system(x);" and lastly; no more things that have anything of the description "heres sumthin to annoy n00bs/ppl/ur neiburs cat". The code bank is not there to be filled with stupid shit to annoy people, it's there to have some good and useful code.

You're fucking right. I just finished wading through that code bank shit (all of it), and I wanted to say the exact same thing. Oh, and let's not forget the damn Matrix code. Thankfully, that's done and over with. I'm just too tired tonight to write up the proposal for the first round of improvements tonight.


Together with the displaying on the main page it has of course also been previously suggested that by comparison to the articles, a person should also have their submitted code displayed with a link on their profile. Seems a fair enough implementation to me, however not very high priority, so just thought I'd mention it to keep it in mind.

Agreed. I'll see about getting this one thrown onto the list; it would make sense to pair it with the cleaning of the code bank, should that happen.


Just some quick thoughts about the code bank and of course, I also support Uber0n. Get your Uber0n pins and banners here, vote Uber0n!

Geez, one little dare, and now we're having an election. Pfft


Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 05:34
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
Oh, and let's not forget the damn Matrix code.


Oh I forgot about the Matrix codes, oh the horror, oh the memories, oh it hurts so much. Glad it'll be finally gone.


Geez, one little dare, and now we're having an election. Pfft

See these are the kind of important things you pick up in kindergarten, dares have consequences, with great dares comes great responsibility.
So be careful with what you dare.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 05:54
COM wrote:
See these are the kind of important things you pick up in kindergarten, dares have consequences, with great dares comes great responsibility.
So be careful with what you dare.

I will keep this in mind next time. God forbid I left the community pelt me with "Vote for Uber0n" buttons. Pfft

Oh, btw... this thread is officially stickied so, if anyone has any other ideas for improvements / concerns / whatever, go ahead and post it here. I'll be adding useful items to the list for the next round of updates (hopefully). Keep it up, guys! Smile


Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 06:22
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
Oh, btw... this thread is officially stickied

Was just going to ask when that'd happen, this thread is a prime example of the concept of evolution... in more ways than one.
I'll see if I can come up with anything else to add, most of my concerns have been addressed/voiced, the only thing I can think of at the moment would be to review some of the more... unsolvable, completely guess your way to it challenges.


Author

RE: God rank to easy?

spyware
Member



Posts: 4192
Location:
Joined: 14.04.07
Rank:
God
Warn Level: 90
Posted on 22-10-08 06:58
Funny. Hundred posts have passed, all embracing a deep change that lingers ahead, and no posts, no remarks, no nothing came from our beloved Mister Cheese. Does he not take interest in his community? Are these deeply altering phases not for him to applaud?

Now the old king is dead! Long live the king?



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce

Edited by spyware on 22-10-08 06:59
Author

RE: God rank to easy?


Member

Your avatar

Posts:
Location:
Joined: 01.01.70
Rank:
Guest
Posted on 22-10-08 07:46
spyware wrote:
Now the old king is dead! Long live the king?

There shall be no king, long live the council, long live the people! Even kings feel when they're dying, some just choose to embrace it quietly and trust their council.




Edited by on 22-10-08 07:48
Page 5 of 12 << < 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > >>