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HellBound Hackers | HellBound Hackers | Comments and Suggestions

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Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 14:32
Greets.

I recently (yesterday) read through a number of HBH forum posts, and did a few of the challenges.

The good points, and the bad ones.

Firstly, the challenges (minus one that's pissing me off - rooting challenge 1) are not bad.

The forums are horrible, because half the questions are answered with, "HOLY SHIT YOU'RE A NOOB LOL", and the other half are retarded questions anyway.

"Rooting" Challenge one.

Seriously. What the hell: Packed with UPX? Okay, unpacked. strings'd. There's the password. I win. Game over. Wait, that's not how you complete it, yet with 2 commands you can finish the level without even executing the binary. That's not a good thing. Really.

The "simulation" itself doesn't at all simulate a proper Linux system - "ls" is not a command, supposedly.

I see a lot of web hacking based material, which is great -- But that's all there is. I read a couple of articles on here about lower level stuff, such as buffer overflows, but too little, and most of it would go straight over most of the users head's.

If you want to educate people, you have to expose them to EVERYTHING about hacking, not just the "easy" stuff.

The IRC channel also slightly pissed me off, mainly because almost everyone's name had letters replaced as numbers. Believe it or not, that doesn't make you cool, it just annoys the fuck out of people because it makes it more difficult to read.

"Hacker Ethics" - This is a large thing for me, especially since I noticed a few people had posted "I'm a hacker, this is my life" type articles, and the whole 'ethical hacking' crap.

Get over the ethics stuff. Seriously. While I do believe in a "code of honour", droning on about it is pointless.

We want to learn. We want to know how things work, not be told what to do and not to do with the information we get. Doesn't telling people that they shouldn't use the information they gather make you just as bad as the people who don't want you get at it in the first place?

I am ethical. But I do not want to hear about it all the time. It makes you no better when a Church implores you to be 'good', yet shuns you when you do something wrong. Don't be a facist.

Answering questions with flames. Pure. Stupidity.

Okay, someone asks a dumb question (how do I hack?, for example) -- does that make the person who asked the question dumb? Surprise:

It doesn't.

If you do not know how something works, does that make you an idiot? No, it doesn't. Most "newbie" people have come from a life of hollywood hacking and all night IM sessions. They don't understand how a hacking community operates, so you flame them for it?

Fantastic. I have faith that you'll help a lot of people decide that bettering themselves by learning isn't worth it. That's JUST what we want.

One last note on spelling/grammar -- I realise it's difficult to make every post perfect (I myself am dyslexic to a small degree, and find difficultly in spelling certain words), but make an effort. It's a forum board, not an IM session.

Owners: You have done well with the Hellbound Hackers, and I quite like it (and the shirts are cool). But your users decrease the overall IQ of the site.

Flame me, flaunt your decadence.
-Reth.
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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 15:02
You are right in a couple of things, like the ethics and stupid post's but I personally don't like peolple asking everything. For example when real #14 came out I realized that it is easy, and I did it. After I checked the forums I found that people who have 3 times more points than me are asking stupid questions instead of googling it ...
But I think people should choose their name as they want, even if it is stupid, or makes no sense. like mine lol


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RE: Flame on.

Mr_Cheese




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Posted on 14-09-06 16:02
point taken, but HBH isnt intended to change you into a uber hacker. majority of the HBH community are teenagers with a recent interest in hacking and have very veyr little knowledge. obvioulsy HBH has to cator for the majority instead of the minority of members who actually have some skill.

the whole point is just as a small learning place where you get put on the right path and can then go off learning by yourself. hbh is surposed to adjust you to the way of thinking, not nessecarily the knowledge.

and in regards to your comment about the IQ of members. i try my best to limit the amount of retarded forum posts, but its more than a one man job, and the admins i put in charge of modding hte forums do fuck all and never bother help.


http://www.hellboundhackers.org/
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RE: Flame on.

SySTeM
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Posted on 14-09-06 16:05
Mr_Cheese wrote:
the admins i put in charge of modding hte forums do fuck all and never bother help.


Not true, I've edited quite a few posts containing spoilers/illegal material or just retarded posts all together.


img138.imageshack.us/img138/6527/sig2ak1.jpg
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http://www.elites0ft.com/
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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 16:06
Ey man, you got msn?

And defending cheese, this site is (to me, at least) more of a social place where u can learn a bit about hacking rather than an encyclopedia on it...


Peace out,
-BluMoose


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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 16:18
You make some good points, but there are some that could be argued.

For one, you complained about Rooting One. If you think it's not good enough, your more than welcome, in fact, your encouraged, to make a better one.

You complain about the article content. Again, yopur encouraged to make better ones. If you think there arn't enough articles on something, then write one. Also, HBH can't put EVERYTHING about hacking on its site, because thats practically impossible. If theres something you cant on the site, then thats what Google is there for.

i don't like names made up completly of "leet speak". But I don't see much wrong with substituting a couple easy letters with numbers, particulary when looking or a unique name.

"how do I hack ?" - i agree, not a dumb question.

"y0 dud3s, can u gimme sum l33t haxor progz ?" or
"can u h4ck ths syte 4 me?"
- These are questions that pop up the most, and most of the time deserve the flame they get (with the advice of "do it yourself" thrown in there somewhere)

This isn't a flame back at you, just my opinion (and not a well consructed one at that) Smile

(editSmile bit of spelling... im not too good either, lol




Edited by on 14-09-06 16:24
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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 16:21
I would love to help mod the forums!


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Posted on 14-09-06 16:37
cubeman372 wrote:
I would love to help mod the forums!

I'd do the same to help out.


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RE: Flame on.

bl4ckc4t
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Posted on 14-09-06 16:50
Reth wrote:
Greets.

I recently (yesterday) read through a number of HBH forum posts, and did a few of the challenges.

The good points, and the bad ones.

Firstly, the challenges (minus one that's pissing me off - rooting challenge 1) are not bad.

The forums are horrible, because half the questions are answered with, "HOLY SHIT YOU'RE A NOOB LOL", and the other half are retarded questions anyway.

"Rooting" Challenge one.

Seriously. What the hell: Packed with UPX? Okay, unpacked. strings'd. There's the password. I win. Game over. Wait, that's not how you complete it, yet with 2 commands you can finish the level without even executing the binary. That's not a good thing. Really.

The "simulation" itself doesn't at all simulate a proper Linux system - "ls" is not a command, supposedly.

I see a lot of web hacking based material, which is great -- But that's all there is. I read a couple of articles on here about lower level stuff, such as buffer overflows, but too little, and most of it would go straight over most of the users head's.

If you want to educate people, you have to expose them to EVERYTHING about hacking, not just the "easy" stuff.

The IRC channel also slightly pissed me off, mainly because almost everyone's name had letters replaced as numbers. Believe it or not, that doesn't make you cool, it just annoys the fuck out of people because it makes it more difficult to read.

"Hacker Ethics" - This is a large thing for me, especially since I noticed a few people had posted "I'm a hacker, this is my life" type articles, and the whole 'ethical hacking' crap.

Get over the ethics stuff. Seriously. While I do believe in a "code of honour", droning on about it is pointless.

We want to learn. We want to know how things work, not be told what to do and not to do with the information we get. Doesn't telling people that they shouldn't use the information they gather make you just as bad as the people who don't want you get at it in the first place?

I am ethical. But I do not want to hear about it all the time. It makes you no better when a Church implores you to be 'good', yet shuns you when you do something wrong. Don't be a facist.

Answering questions with flames. Pure. Stupidity.

Okay, someone asks a dumb question (how do I hack?, for example) -- does that make the person who asked the question dumb? Surprise:

It doesn't.

If you do not know how something works, does that make you an idiot? No, it doesn't. Most "newbie" people have come from a life of hollywood hacking and all night IM sessions. They don't understand how a hacking community operates, so you flame them for it?

Fantastic. I have faith that you'll help a lot of people decide that bettering themselves by learning isn't worth it. That's JUST what we want.

One last note on spelling/grammar -- I realise it's difficult to make every post perfect (I myself am dyslexic to a small degree, and find difficultly in spelling certain words), but make an effort. It's a forum board, not an IM session.

Owners: You have done well with the Hellbound Hackers, and I quite like it (and the shirts are cool). But your users decrease the overall IQ of the site.

Flame me, flaunt your decadence.
-Reth.


1 - The rooting challenge has an artical I wrote, giving a complete tutorial on it.
2. My name DOES have a couple numbers in it instead of A, but people can read it, mine is just to make my name unique.
3. Spelling does count, I try to keep my posts as easy to read as possible.
4. I have learned almost everything I know from these guys, after I try fairly hard, I go to the forums and read all of them on the subject I am on. THEN if I still dont get what I am looking for, I go and I post a detailed description of what I need. I just look at those that flame me as people that dont want to help and I accept it.

This is my opinion.

Bl4ckC4t


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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 17:33
I agree that the ethical isn't very fun to hear all the time, and the rooting one isn't the best eiether, but I guess that it's hard to make a perfect one.
And the spelling part is really important, but it's hard for the teenagers who don't talk english IRl.

Mr cheese, I guess that there is enough people out here that would want to help with the forum cleaning. But I think that you should try to make it more popular in some way and if possible try to make it so it isn't just about HBH.
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RE: Flame on.

AldarHawk
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Posted on 14-09-06 17:35
Okay...This is coming from an avid member of this site. I am as most people know one of the more helpful guys here most of the time.

Many good points have been made but I do disagree 100% with some of the areas.

Ethics: Main point of many of these articles is the fact that knowledge is not power...it is what you DO with the knowledge that gives YOU power. If someone had a copy of your car keys would you care if they took your car for spins around town when you were sleeping? What if they took it for a spin, got in a HUGE crash, killed 3 people and you get blamed because it was your car? You see where I am going with this? Yes Ethics are to the user but without guidelines it would be anarchy and humanity is not capable of anarchy though it is the purest form of order. If you disagree please let me know and state why because I would love to have an intelectual discussion on many subjects Wink

Age: I am not a your teenager looking for a place to learn. I am (Most likely) one of the eldest here on this site. I have been hacking for longer than most of the people here are old so I do have my experience in this line of work.

Challenges: As Mr. Cheese already stated, the challenges are pointed towards the new hacker who is learning. As you advance up in levels you learn more and have a wider range of knowledge.

Challenges Part2: If you know of some good exploits or mind broadening challenges that are not featured here in the site then code it by all means. I myself am working on one that is more realistic than most of the realistic challenges on this site (YES EVEN THE ONES I CODED).

Articles: If you have a problem with content please send in your own articles. It can only better the community right?

Conclusion: So to make a long story short and sum it up for those who do not want to read all that mumbo jumbo up top here. If you have a problem let us know so we can work on it. If you have an Idea let us know and we can put it into play. If you have a challenge send it in so we can review and make it available. If you Do not like what people think and say do not listen Wink

I am sure there is more for me to say but I have had a long day and this is enough for me for now Wink


Just ask Yahoo!Taboo! http://www.erikwestlake.com
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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 14-09-06 21:18
I have learned almost everything I know from these guys

Bl4ckC4t: Perhaps you should broaden your horizons. There's a lot more than what's on here waiting to be learned.

BluMoose: I don't have MSN, but I'm on the IRC server redneck.servebeer.com:6667. Join #main and ask for me.

AldarHawk:

On age: While I respect elder people (if they deserve it), age should not have a great bearing on how someone views a community, or even a person (at least over the internet). On that subject, I'm 15.

On ethics: While I do not disagree with the fact that a grounding in ethics is important, no one wants to hear about it over and over again. It's a bit like going to Church - Once a week is enough, you don't want to be hearing about how you live your life badly enough day of the week.

On anarchy: While I do believe humanity itself is capable of a form of anarchist (non-)government (The community drives out the ones who grab for overall power, although this itself causes problems if someone is falsely accused. But, if everyone is equal (get rid of money, we don't need it, work on a system of trade, then everyone has to contribute or you'll miss out) then there's no one to corrupt.), it's hardly possibly over the internet. We do indeed need our Moderators to help clean up bad posts and remove those who make it hard for others.

-Reth

Edited by on 14-09-06 21:18
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RE: Flame on.

bl4ckc4t
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Posted on 15-09-06 06:13
Reth wrote:
Bl4ckC4t: Perhaps you should broaden your horizons. There's a lot more than what's on here waiting to be learned.

BluMoose: I don't have MSN, but I'm on the IRC server redneck.servebeer.com:6667. Join #main and ask for me.

AldarHawk:

On age: While I respect elder people (if they deserve it), age should not have a great bearing on how someone views a community, or even a person (at least over the internet). On that subject, I'm 15.

On ethics: While I do not disagree with the fact that a grounding in ethics is important, no one wants to hear about it over and over again. It's a bit like going to Church - Once a week is enough, you don't want to be hearing about how you live your life badly enough day of the week.

On anarchy: While I do believe humanity itself is capable of a form of anarchist (non-)government (The community drives out the ones who grab for overall power, although this itself causes problems if someone is falsely accused. But, if everyone is equal (get rid of money, we don't need it, work on a system of trade, then everyone has to contribute or you'll miss out) then there's no one to corrupt.), it's hardly possibly over the internet. We do indeed need our Moderators to help clean up bad posts and remove those who make it hard for others.

-Reth


I have learned alot from here. I enjoy the place and I enjoy the people.
I try to help people the best I can any time Its something I know. I try no to ever flame anyone, partly because everyone was once a noob and was flamed at one time in their life.

You say I need to broaden my horizons, I havent seen too many places that were better than here. This one actually teaches and doesnt make you do it yourself.

As far as your comment on young people, if your 15, I am older than you even. Im 17.


Bl4ckC4t


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RE: Flame on.

korg
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Posted on 15-09-06 12:18
Wanted to respond to this because of the comment "But your users decrease the overall IQ of the site" I have been a member since jan. and am on everyday even just for a few minutes to help people in the forums. As Aldarhawk stated (I'm older than you aldarSad) A select few of us do try to help as many people as we can. But there are the select few who DO NOT read the TOS or FORUM RULES! Those are the people who get flamed or asking a question that has been asked seven hundred times in the forums or articles already. I have been hacking for many years I started with a used apple2c with a 5 1/4 floppy and a tv for a monitor. (That computers older than some members but it was the shit back in the day.) I have years of experience and don't mind sharing it to help someone. So please do not generalize all members because of a few jackoffs who probably aren't members now anyways.

As far as the challenges go, Yes they give you a basic foot in to start you. The rest is up to what you apply yourself to do with it. The realistic missions just make you think outside the box.

Stick around get to know the select few of us who sign on everyday (like a bad virus) And I think you'll like itSmile

KORG

Wanted to add that most of the articles are worthless or copy and pasted. There are too many of the same challenge tutorials, You don't need 6or7 on the same one. These do need to be cleaned up a bit.

Edited by korg on 15-09-06 20:33
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RE: Flame on.

AldarHawk
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Posted on 15-09-06 13:10
Reth wrote:
AldarHawk:

On age: While I respect elder people (if they deserve it), age should not have a great bearing on how someone views a community, or even a person (at least over the internet). On that subject, I'm 15.

On ethics: While I do not disagree with the fact that a grounding in ethics is important, no one wants to hear about it over and over again. It's a bit like going to Church - Once a week is enough, you don't want to be hearing about how you live your life badly enough day of the week.

On anarchy: While I do believe humanity itself is capable of a form of anarchist (non-)government (The community drives out the ones who grab for overall power, although this itself causes problems if someone is falsely accused. But, if everyone is equal (get rid of money, we don't need it, work on a system of trade, then everyone has to contribute or you'll miss out) then there's no one to corrupt.), it's hardly possibly over the internet. We do indeed need our Moderators to help clean up bad posts and remove those who make it hard for others.

-Reth


Firstly on age: I am not saying age matters at all. I know some people in this community that could bypass me in hacking when they are your age. But remember it is not what you do but how you come to it. I work to stop hackers which is why I am here to learn how they hack. I can foil most people on a daily basis through the knowlege I pick up here and the people I know. So age is not everything but with age comes wisdom (*puts on the elder emperor of china voice*)

Secondly on ethics: I am not saying that you need to hear about it every day. you read an article one or two times correct? if you read the articles under the title ETHICS and complain that all the articles are about ethics then you need to STFU. No offence but they are catagorized for a reason.

Thirdly on anarchy: Humans CANNOT in any way shape or form handle an anarchismic (is that even a word? I guess I could just pull a George W Bush) heiarchy. Humans are not able to live without greed and many other things that drive the nations. This is just not possible. People are too set in their ways. They do not like to be diturred. They will not stand for a non-governmental set of rules because Humans cannot live without rules. You pretty much made my point when you said "although this itself causes problems if someone is falsely accused" so you can keep it up. I too thought that anarchy was possible years ago. But the truth is that without rules people will not do their equal share (even with rules some people do not do their share!).

To make my points clear You are correct on some aspects once again and I applaud you for your time put into this, but you are incorrect on some of your counter arguments as well. Thank you for the time man. Keep it up :evil:


Just ask Yahoo!Taboo! http://www.erikwestlake.com
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RE: Flame on.


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Posted on 15-09-06 13:12
This one actually teaches and doesnt make you do it yourself.

Learning to learn on your own is important, mind you. What if your teacher makes a mistake?

Korg: After trawling through a lot of forum posts, it's easy to see who's on the ball and who's not. The people who are 'with it' definately stand out from the more 'dim' users. And on articles, I would like to see them proof-read and the spelling corrected before posting. Good spelling/grammar makes an article a lot nicer to read. Tedious job, though.

AldarHawk: Think smaller scale - Perhaps a community of 200-300 people living under a system of anarchy. These people would all have to agree on the system (as is the basis of anarchy) and generally be honest people (HARD to find in this day and age), but under those circumstances I believe it would have a good chance of succeeding. And if without rules people do not do their equal share, and you get rid of money - How will they live? They won't. Let's say you have a barber and a farmer. The barber cuts the farmer's hair in exchange for food. If the farmer or the barber doesn't do their side of the bargin, they are screwed.

And ethics: Good point about the articles part; Don't read what you don't want to. However, people responding to questions with stuff like, "Don't do that, it's illegal" and not really sharing information isn't what this place should be about. E.g, Someone asks about a DoS attack, and they're told it's best not to know how one is preformed. If this person (as yourself) wants to learn how to foil hackers (or at least psuedo-hackers, in the case of a DoS attack), it would be hard for them to get the information they wanted, especially if they are unable to understand more complex articles. In short; we should trust people to use the information they gather responsibly rather then always expecting the worst. Besides, if they do do something overly evil and get caught, it's their fault - We only gave them the information. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

-Reth






Edited by on 15-09-06 13:24
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Posted on 15-09-06 15:06
tr0000f bl4d!