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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!


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Posted on 10-03-09 19:29
MoshBat wrote:
Not happening. Do you want the exact quote?

I do!


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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

SySTeM
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:30
spyware wrote:
Yours31f himself said that he "got the green light from Cheese".

Is he just lying?


Yes, yes he is.


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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

yours31f
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:32
Mr_Cheese wrote:

thanks for your admin request.

however at the moment we are fine for admins.

i have promised to give jjbutler and -cL admin.

if other admins leave/increased workload etc etc then sure i'd be happy to give you admin as your a pretty active member. Smile

i'll let you know in future if a position opens up.




Debugging is what programmers do to beta software to make it take up more room on your hard drive if it is running too efficiently.


img259.imageshack.us/img259/3713/sigr.png



Edited by yours31f on 10-03-09 19:38
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!


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Posted on 10-03-09 19:35
system_meltdown wrote:
spyware wrote:
Yours31f himself said that he "got the green light from Cheese".

Is he just lying?


Yes, yes he is.

MoshBat wrote:
Okay, I can't find the log, but I believe it was "Hell no!"...

Easily misunderstandable, I'm sure it wasn't yours31f's intentions to tell us something incorrect like him becoming admin then. Good that we all managed to work this little misunderstanding out then Smile


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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

SySTeM
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:35
yours31f wrote:
Mr_Cheese wrote:

if other admins leave/increased workload etc etc then sure i'd be happy to give you admin as your a pretty active member. Smile

i'll let you know in future if a position opens up.



That's hardly the green light.

The green light is "Congrats, you just became an admin."


img138.imageshack.us/img138/6527/sig2ak1.jpg
www.hellboundhackers.org/sig/r/2783.png

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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

clone4
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:37
yours31f wrote:
Mr_Cheese wrote:

if other admins leave/increased workload etc etc then sure i'd be happy to give you admin as your a pretty active member. Smile

i'll let you know in future if a position opens up.



I'm sorry, but do I see reason for consideration of giving admin rights to a member based merely on his activity... well then.... ... ... I'm kind of speechless....

Oh and no, yours31f didn't lie, he did pretty clearly said in shoutbox that he might get admin rights some time in the future


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl



Edited by clone4 on 10-03-09 19:39
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

yours31f
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:38
It only copied half of it but i fixed it.


Debugging is what programmers do to beta software to make it take up more room on your hard drive if it is running too efficiently.


img259.imageshack.us/img259/3713/sigr.png

yours31f@live.com yours31f@yahoo.com rpwd.info
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

clone4
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:46
and when we are in the issue of admins:
It's been bothering me for a while the way new admins are appointed (that is based on personal request of the person), I know that Cheese most likely would never allow this, but I think that opened election for admins, or at least based on recommendation of the rest of the admin crew would ensure only quality members that actually contribute to the site would get appropriate rights... just my 2 cents

oh and this is meant to be expression of my frustration, rather then actually something constructive to consider, but just only because well we have see that something like this will never happen(I'm sure we all still remember ZephWink)


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl



Edited by clone4 on 10-03-09 19:48
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

clone4
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Posted on 10-03-09 19:54
Not at all, that is a general issue, rather then something in particular, I don't like the dictatorship way some things are done here, that's pretty much it Smile


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

clone_4@hotmail.com
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

spyware
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Posted on 10-03-09 20:01
clone4 wrote:
Not at all, that is a general issue, rather then something in particular, I don't like the dictatorship way some things are done here, that's pretty much it Smile


Don't back out now Clone. Just don't. You have a problem with dictatorship? That's because you have a problem with dictations. WHICH dictations do you have a problem with and WHY?

I urge you to say what you think. It's important for this community. For any community.



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce
Author

RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

clone4
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Posted on 10-03-09 20:27
spyware wrote:
clone4 wrote:
Not at all, that is a general issue, rather then something in particular, I don't like the dictatorship way some things are done here, that's pretty much it Smile


Don't back out now Clone. Just don't. You have a problem with dictatorship? That's because you have a problem with dictations. WHICH dictations do you have a problem with and WHY?

I urge you to say what you think. It's important for this community. For any community.


Fair enough. Chances are that these couple of posts might be deleted/edit anyway. I will try also to get straight to the point, so I don't bore anyone.

so firstly it's the issue with admins and mods as said before, the responsibilities are all layed on one single person, who even isn't that much online anymore, and still he stubbornly refuses to delegate powers to anybody else but him and in rare circumstances to couple of chosen ones. This behaviour basically forced one of our most active, useful and knowledgeable members, Zephyr_Pure out, just because he wasn't allowed to volutarily help with development of the site. Person with full time job as a developer, and yet wasn't allowed to help improve this site, I dunno but that's a little strange to say the least. It was said that you can't just throw dev rights everywhere and to anyone, that is true, but seriously Zeph wasn't just any other noobish new member here, and tried to really help.
Secondly, fact that if you want any little change takes ages to carry out, for the very reason I mentioned earlier, me and COM wrote new FAQ, and how long it took to implement it? many weeks if not months ( but almost forgot that a lot of the credit goes to Futility for actually taking the initiative and implementing it!!! )... Same applies for the programming competition, how long has there been the poll, and what happend? answers are 'ages' and 'nothing'.
I know admins are swamped with work, so why article checks and logical challenges checks aren't delegated to other members, not just admins, but just responsible members of the community, so admins can try to solve more 'important' issues.
It's just this stupid system, where limited league of heroes tries to save the whole world, but if anybody tries to help as well, he is slapped and sent home. It's just proper delegation, sharing and divison of rights and responsibilities, that doesn't exit here, and that is essential for a community to grow...
well that's it, I think I could go on for a little more, but this should be enough to give the idea...

oh and sorry for any mistakes, I'm quite tired... oh and big sorry to OP for the thread hijack!


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl



Edited by clone4 on 10-03-09 20:38
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

Futility
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Posted on 10-03-09 20:33
COM wrote:
Regarding new types of challenges of programming nature I have put forward my ideas several times, I'm sure some can keep focus long enough to remember.

Then I guess you should remind everyone about it. Since your idea got lost in the 'God rank too easy' thread, I figured it was worth another mention here.

The second idea is a new type of challenge which would be a bit like the current web patching ones. What I was thinking is to show people some code and tell them what it's supposed to do, except there's one thing in the code that is incorrect for the given purpose and the person will have to find the flaw and explain the fault and what to do to correct it. The supplying of the answer will probably be a lot like the current logical challenges and would therefor take time away from staff to look through so not sure how enthusiastic any staff member would be about that.
Alternately it could also be a sort of code optimization where you're, like the previous example, supplied with a code, except this time it works as it should. However, the solution to how it works is at a point unnecessary or something along those lines and the person would have to supply a way to do the same thing more efficiently.
These sorts of challenges would be good for people to train in reading code and also, it could be a way to learn to recognize and get past many programming mistakes that are more or less common.

Personally, I think this would be awesome and I've suggested something along the lines of it myself months ago. PHP isn't the only language, so why should it be the only one for us to patch? I believe it was spy that said programming is horrifically overlooked on this site and I feel this would be a great way to bring it back. If you're forced to read code from many different languages to get the points that are so coveted here, then your skills could increase markedly. Since being able to optimize your code is an invaluable asset to any programmer, it should not be simply overlooked because it might be annoying to check through.

For the most part, the timed challenges right now just require a basic regexp to grab the data, then some simple calculation to get the answer. Programming isn't just numbers and encryption and base64-ing stuff, which is something that the majority of the challenges here don't seem to illustrate very well. How often are you going to be given one second to grab data from a site and post an answer back? Swart's challenge was awesome because it was (is) something different, new. It forces you to delve deeper into the language of your choice and learn something that you might have otherwise completely ignored.

On the subject of the dictatorship: I've got a few things I'd like to complain about. I hate how the few that really want to help are denied the privs to do so. They're held down while the guys that do have the rights don't use them. I hate how good ideas are mentioned, acknowledged, discussed, accepted, then never appear because someone is "too busy" (for months and months and months) to code it or allow someone else to. I hate how competitions never happen because winners are never announced. I hate how great ideas are shot down because it would be "too much work" for the admins that are all so very "busy". I hate how real threads end up bogged down by idiots arguing about something that doesn't matter.

Anywhere, that's my opinion. Take it as you will. I'm sure there's more that I missed, but right now I'm working on something that should have been done a long time ago (yes, for HBH) and have already taken way too long to do it. Typing a giant response that will end up getting ignored by half the people here because it's too long isn't speeding anything up.


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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

spyware
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Posted on 10-03-09 20:40
Thread bookmarked.



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce
Author

RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

clone4
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Posted on 10-03-09 20:48
MoshBat wrote:
So. Here is my proposal.
10 forum moderators, voted by you folks. This would enable the Admins/devs to get on with more important things.
If you happen to like that idea, please say so.


Great idea, so 100% yes from me, don't care if direct or with nomintions, each member should be able to give 2-3 votes (of course different name for each one) and can vote anyone but himself, make official thread, sticky it advertise it, the vote held over period of one week, what do you think?

I think similliar thing should be done for logical and article approvals, even if admin ultimately have to look through, it would make it a lot easier, as the elected members would filter out the majority of bullshit and leave just the ambiguous stuff or quality material (now speaking mainly about the articles of course)...


[img][/img]img164.imageshack.us/img164/5713/perlvl0.jpg

clone4.freehostia.com/ubuntu_3.png
spyware - "They see me trollin'..."
<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl



Edited by clone4 on 10-03-09 20:51
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

spyware
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Posted on 10-03-09 20:53
Aye



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!


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Posted on 10-03-09 20:54
MoshBat wrote:
I'm more than willing to get things done, as I have been doing.
I would *like* to be able to arrange for some members, voted by you, to be allowed to moderate the forums.
However, I need support with that idea, or it will get nowhere.
I may have all the privs that cheese does, but I can't just hand out powers to people... Well, I can, but that will just get me sacked.
So. Here is my proposal.
10 forum moderators, voted by you folks. This would enable the Admins/devs to get on with more important things.
If you happen to like that idea, please say so.


Count another yes from me.


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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!

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Posted on 10-03-09 20:59
another from me, that's 4 so far.


Debugging is what programmers do to beta software to make it take up more room on your hard drive if it is running too efficiently.


img259.imageshack.us/img259/3713/sigr.png

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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!


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Posted on 10-03-09 21:17
Futility wrote:
Then I guess you should remind everyone about it. Since your idea got lost in the 'God rank too easy' thread, I figured it was worth another mention here.

As I said, several times.

Anyhow, about voting for moderators, also mentioned in the "God rank too easy" thread, would be good. Though I consider that to be up to staff and possibly EMs to vote for only. If anyone can present names and anyone can vote then anyone can makes any number of accounts and just boost his own votes. Who will name the candidates? How will the ten moderators be handled, as in, would this mean that current ones might be suspended and ten entirely new ones getting privileges or just additional ones to reach the amount of ten? Ten also being a number that seems a tad high to me, though to be fair I'm not sure how many forum moderators there currently are. For forum and general administration five active moderators should be enough.
Also, would the moderators voted have a say in the matter? I know that I've been recommended as admin and not even been talked to about it. As mentioned before, shouldn't other admins get to be the ones to recommend new candidates and not just judge people who think themselves important enough to go around asking for more privileges?
If we can pull it off, then the voting for admins gets a yes from me too. The ruling council should be appointed by either people who know what they're doing or just generally, the people. Not just one person who considers it depending on who gets it in their head to ask for rights.


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Posted on 10-03-09 21:29
Yes, of course.




Edited by on 10-03-09 21:29
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RE: concerning Programming Challenges!


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Posted on 10-03-09 21:34
MoshBat wrote:
I'll also be doing IP checks on each vote. Wink

You fool, now they are prepared! Shock
Besides that I guess it sounds good, ten still sounds like a lot to me but with time zone differences, etc. it might be better with more if we manage to get from several zones.
So yeah, yes from me. Voting in some form and admin made appointments for candidates have always been supported by me.


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