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HellBound Hackers | HellBound Hackers | Lessons

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RE: A question for those who have walked the path.


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Posted on 08-11-08 04:16
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
whitecell wrote:
umm not true, I live in the US, the most successful country in the world. Grin

Dude, what US do you live in? ... Cuz the one I live in is poor. Really poor.

1. $10 trillion poor.
2. Add in the unstable and potentially collapsing economy.
3. Add in our crappy education system.



The US is in debate right now about our economy, sure I agree we have poverty, but the economy has shown growth (very debatable but the numbers show it, that is why McCain's advisor said we are a nation of whiners...). Sure elements of the economy got fudged b/c of terrible loaning, but the US I live in has a show called 'Survivor' where a game is played to have our citizens survivor in an environment where people actual live in the world. The US I live in finds it common to have running tap water, eat at places where the food is made for them, and regularly attend movies shown on a giant screen. The US is not poor in a worldly sense, we miss living in luxury.



No offense, because I actually live in the US, too... but, our country is in suck mode right now. That's why I'm waiting to see how the next 4 years may turn things around.



I hope OB can return the US to it's beloved state too.


spyware wrote:
The fact that not he but his government is paying for his education only means that his country is more successful than the country you are living in...

whitecell wrote:
not true

Then, how exactly does that concept apply to our country, in which scholarships and grants are provided to students that qualify? If other countries are not successful from being able to pay for that education, then how successful are we when we're only paying for a small portion of ours?



I think I agree with Zeph...



spyware wrote:
You are the ones waging wars and whatnot

whitecell wrote:
not true

That one is true. It just sounds worse when taken out of context. Add in the purpose behind them, and they sound more justified (not counting this current, excessively drawn-out one).


Yeah but I am not going to agree that he can say all of us Americans wage these wars. Though in all actuality it is done under an American flag, I believe we are a nation divided on that. George Bush and his cronies waged that war.




Edited by on 08-11-08 04:17
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RE: A question for those who have walked the path.


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Posted on 08-11-08 15:19
whitecell wrote:
The US is in debate right now about our economy, sure I agree we have poverty, but the economy has shown growth (very debatable but the numbers show it, that is why McCain's advisor said we are a nation of whiners...). Sure elements of the economy got fudged b/c of terrible loaning, but the US I live in has a show called 'Survivor' where a game is played to have our citizens survivor in an environment where people actual live in the world. The US I live in finds it common to have running tap water, eat at places where the food is made for them, and regularly attend movies shown on a giant screen. The US is not poor in a worldly sense, we miss living in luxury.

Oh, okay... so, McCain's advisor called us a nation of whiners. Is he the same one that told McCain that Sarah Palin would be a good idea for a running mate? Seriously, "whiners"?

So, I guess AIG (small company, really) was a whiner when it *really* was going bankrupt. And Wachovia (another small one). Oh, and these companies called J.P. Morgan and Bank of America (which most people probably haven't heard of) merging to stay alive. ... Does anyone know who this little company called "General Motors" is? Yeah, they were (and possibly still are) going bankrupt, too.

I guess the biggest whiner of all would have to be Wall Street itself, who threw the "biggest crybaby fit of all" when it SHUT DOWN to prevent the stock market bottoming out... and that wasn't too long ago. So, given all of that fact, McCain's advisor can kiss my ass with his empty skepticism, and you need to check more sources.

About those "luxuries"... those aren't luxuries, guy. Any country that's at least halfway developed has those. There are other developed countries in the world; it's not just a gamut of third-world trashpiles "out there".

I wrote:
Then, how exactly does that concept apply to our country, in which scholarships and grants are provided to students that qualify? If other countries are not successful from being able to pay for that education, then how successful are we when we're only paying for a small portion of ours?

whitecell wrote:
I think I agree with Zeph...

You can't agree with me... It was a question directed at you.

whitecell wrote:
Yeah but I am not going to agree that he can say all of us Americans wage these wars. Though in all actuality it is done under an American flag, I believe we are a nation divided on that. George Bush and his cronies waged that war.

The Iraqi War started well before the 2004 election occurred. The voters were given ample time to consider the right decision. They were given the choice between pulling troops out of Iraq or preventing gay marriage. The MAJORITY voted Bush back in based upon the war. Apparently, buttsex > life.


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RE: A question for those who have walked the path.


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Posted on 08-11-08 17:29
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
whitecell wrote:
The US is in debate right now about our economy, sure I agree we have poverty, but the economy has shown growth (very debatable but the numbers show it, that is why McCain's advisor said we are a nation of whiners...). Sure elements of the economy got fudged b/c of terrible loaning, but the US I live in has a show called 'Survivor' where a game is played to have our citizens survivor in an environment where people actual live in the world. The US I live in finds it common to have running tap water, eat at places where the food is made for them, and regularly attend movies shown on a giant screen. The US is not poor in a worldly sense, we miss living in luxury.

Oh, okay... so, McCain's advisor called us a nation of whiners. Is he the same one that told McCain that Sarah Palin would be a good idea for a running mate? Seriously, "whiners"?

So, I guess AIG (small company, really) was a whiner when it *really* was going bankrupt. And Wachovia (another small one). Oh, and these companies called J.P. Morgan and Bank of America (which most people probably haven't heard of) merging to stay alive. ... Does anyone know who this little company called "General Motors" is? Yeah, they were (and possibly still are) going bankrupt, too.

I guess the biggest whiner of all would have to be Wall Street itself, who threw the "biggest crybaby fit of all" when it SHUT DOWN to prevent the stock market bottoming out... and that wasn't too long ago. So, given all of that fact, McCain's advisor can kiss my ass with his empty skepticism, and you need to check more sources.

About those "luxuries"... those aren't luxuries, guy. Any country that's at least halfway developed has those. There are other developed countries in the world; it's not just a gamut of third-world trashpiles "out there".


okay you're right I apologize. Sad I know our country is not doing very well right now... I really was not agreeing with Graham saying we're a nation of whiners, I was just saying that Americans have been taken advantage of when it came to loaning.

"The collapse in home values as well as the crash of the economy is the result of an insurance fraud scheme being ran by a group of Wall Street insiders and the corrupt politicians that they have in their pockets"

- http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2008/10/what-caused-the-stock-market-crash-credit-default-swap-scandal-revealed.html

Because our housing market caused the banks to crash Hopefully Obama does return it to a beloved state.

And those luxuries in other countries are nothing compared what Americans make it...




I wrote:
Then, how exactly does that concept apply to our country, in which scholarships and grants are provided to students that qualify? If other countries are not successful from being able to pay for that education, then how successful are we when we're only paying for a small portion of ours?

whitecell wrote:
I think I agree with Zeph...

You can't agree with me... It was a question directed at you.



That's why I said I think, I really didn't get what you're asking...

If I think I get it, then why would that make our country less successful. If we're looking in as many possible ways, then when a countries citizens can pay, or acquire a loan to pay, or still get government grants to pay for their own college, and then obtain a job in the states that can later pay for such high expenses raise a family and live comfortably then how is our country less successful? Another question could be, could the Swedes pay for college if it cost as much as it does in the states. I simply do not know, but there are a lot of questions you could ask about how each economy works and their goals. I get the drift now, but I think the thing I know the least is economics, and am not going to argue what makes a country successful. Enlighten me...



whitecell wrote:
Yeah but I am not going to agree that he can say all of us Americans wage these wars. Though in all actuality it is done under an American flag, I believe we are a nation divided on that. George Bush and his cronies waged that war.

The Iraqi War started well before the 2004 election occurred. The voters were given ample time to consider the right decision. They were given the choice between pulling troops out of Iraq or preventing gay marriage. The MAJORITY voted Bush back in based upon the war. Apparently, buttsex > life.


I don't know how I could really believe that...9/11 sparked the war in Afghanistan, and moved to Iraq. Americans did not want a search for Osama and deletion of Al Qaeda to turn into this.

"In a January 2003 CBS poll 64% of U.S. nationals had approved of military action against Iraq, however 63% wanted President Bush to find a diplomatic solution rather than going to war, and 62% believed the threat of terrorism would increase in the event of war."
- CBS.com

I think many felt very manipulated and lied to by pres Bush about WoMD's. That's why Obama poned McCain, when even there was a little allusion to him being similar to Bush...The point I really wanted to get across was that the American people were poorly represented by Bush and Cheney, and we are not as war mongering as spyware was saying.


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RE: A question for those who have walked the path.


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Posted on 08-11-08 17:46
whitecell wrote:
And those luxuries in other countries are nothing compared what Americans make it...

Yeah... in some of the other countries, they're actually better. :whoa:

whitecell wrote:
If I think I get it, then why would that make our country less successful. If we're looking in as many possible ways, then when a countries citizens can pay, or acquire a loan to pay, or still get government grants to pay for their own college, and then obtain a job in the states that can later pay for such high expenses raise a family and live comfortably then how is our country less successful? Another question could be, could the Swedes pay for college if it cost as much as it does in the states. I simply do not know, but there are a lot of questions you could ask about how each economy works and their goals. I get the drift now, but I think the thing I know the least is economics, and am not going to argue what makes a country successful. Enlighten me...

The fact that a country pays for its citizens' education does not automatically imply that the citizens are unable to... any more than saying that a person receiving scholarships cannot pay theirs. One does not infer the other. Thus, speculation about whether Swedes could pay for college if it was *more* expensive is irrelevant, because you have no basis for suggesting that they can't pay for it now.

We could ask a bunch of questions about how each economy works, but that's not the goal here. The goal is to realize that, at the base of this all... the US is a developed country, just like many other developed countries (including Sweden and many, MANY others).

whitecell wrote:
"In a January 2003 CBS poll 64% of U.S. nationals had approved of military action against Iraq, however 63% wanted President Bush to find a diplomatic solution rather than going to war, and 62% believed the threat of terrorism would increase in the event of war."
- CBS.com

Did you read that when you quoted it? Read it again, then tell me which part disproved what I said.

whitecell wrote:
The point I really wanted to get across was that the American people were poorly represented by Bush and Cheney, and we are not as war mongering as spyware was saying.

... and the point I was getting across is that the majority of our citizens' votes went towards that pair of "representatives" when given the option to right the wrong in 2004. So, Bush and Cheney poorly represented the few that did not vote for them; the rest were accurately represented, and they made up the majority of the voters.

We are not all war-mongering, no... Our country has tended to be in recent years, though. I believe that was the point he was getting across.


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RE: A question for those who have walked the path.

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Posted on 08-11-08 18:10
Whitecell; your comments are obnoxiously discriminating towards virtually every country on the planet other than the United States. That's just... rude.



img507.imageshack.us/img507/3580/spynewsig3il1.png
"The chowner of property." - Zeph
[small]
Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.
- Carl Sagan
[center]�Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?� - Ebert[/ce

Edited by spyware on 08-11-08 18:19
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RE: A question for those who have walked the path.


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Posted on 08-11-08 20:23
Zephyr_Pure wrote:
Yeah... in some of the other countries, they're actually better. :whoa:


okay you're right, in some places there are better luxuries, but the US consumes a hell of a lot more to have a luxurious life.

The US consumes in a year,

7.2 trillion gallons
1,352,080,623,840 (kWH) kilowatt hours (based on 2006 statistics)

and overall

In the United States:

Reducing consumption without reducing use is a costly delusion. If undeveloped countries consumed at the same rate as the US, four complete planets the size of the Earth would be required. People who think that they have a right to such a life are quite mistaken.

Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy.
On average, one American consumes as much energy as
2 Japanese
6 Mexicans
13 Chinese
31 Indians
128 Bangladeshis
307 Tanzanians
370 Ethiopians

This was just a snapshot

http://www.mindfu. . .ercent.htm


The fact that a country pays for its citizens' education does not automatically imply that the citizens are unable to...


I didn't mean to imply that, and I apoligize if I offended any swedes. I was just adding that as a hypothetical that you could keep asking questions and not really determine anything from it. That's why I added 'I don't know', but that was terrible judgement on my part to raise that question. Again sorry Uber if that was offensive.


any more than saying that a person receiving scholarships cannot pay theirs. One does not infer the other. Thus, speculation about whether Swedes could pay for college if it was *more* expensive is irrelevant, because you have no basis for suggesting that they can't pay for it now.


okay I was wrong, point taken.


We could ask a bunch of questions about how each economy works, but that's not the goal here. The goal is to realize that, at the base of this all... the US is a developed country, just like many other developed countries (including Sweden and many, MANY others).


okay there are many developed countries. Frown


whitecell wrote:
"In a January 2003 CBS poll 64% of U.S. nationals had approved of military action against Iraq, however 63% wanted President Bush to find a diplomatic solution rather than going to war, and 62% believed the threat of terrorism would increase in the event of war."
- CBS.com

Did you read that when you quoted it? Read it again, then tell me which part disproved what I said.


I was trying to show that there was a large majority that did not want to go into Iraq in the first place thus not needing to have to then withdraw troops. So I was thinking that there were many that thought buttsex < life.


... and the point I was getting across is that the majority of our citizens' votes went towards that pair of "representatives" when given the option to right the wrong in 2004. So, Bush and Cheney poorly represented the few that did not vote for them; the rest were accurately represented, and they made up the majority of the voters.


okay I agree that a smaller majority at that time of voting were poorly misrepresented, but now a larger majority feel that at that time of voting they were lied to and manipulated (shows in the approval rating of Bush). So the smaller majority that did not vote for the two thus becomes larger today as many would say they were being misrepresented during the 2004 voting when they were in a state of manipulation.

Also not everyone speaks out during elections which is a terrible mistake. I think the huge difference in majority in the recent election is proof that the American people were fed up with being misrepresented.


We are not all war-mongering, no... Our country has tended to be in recent years, though. I believe that was the point he was getting across.


So we are or we are not? And the point I was getting across was that he could not simply generalize all of the rest of us into a group of warmongers.

spyware wrote:
Whitecell; your comments are obnoxiously discriminating towards virtually every country on the planet other than the United States. That's just... rude.


No I have not been, I have been patriotic for America, but not biased, as I criticized America too. I said one questionable thing that I apologized for. I have tried hard to give support for my reasoning and not just spew out statements that I think are "truths" like you...




Edited by on 08-11-08 20:57
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