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Unethical Defacements

Arrow Image Egotistical morons tooting their own horns.

I was browsing through inurl:ftp nonsense a few months ago after reading an ftp defacement article, and was looking through the google results when I came across a churches website that had be defaced, and didn\'t think it was really a big deal, and passed it off in my mind as a harmless prank. But then it hit me. The constant pointless defacements are becoming a real problem for the hacking community and are getting the ethical hackers locked up, because they have to inflate their egos. There are to many people that call themselves hackers because they can deface an ftp site (not saying this is the only thing, or specifically targeting this, it just seems like a good example), or put javascript on someones forums, just to be annoying, or even think that they aren\'t harming anyone and that it is just a practical joke, or even so they can brag to their friends about how the are an 31337 hacker.

But take a look at what your doing. Sure, you think that your not harming anyone or causing any problems, but simply put for every action their is an opposite, but equal reaction. Your just giving hackers a bad name. Your causing ethical hackers to get arrested for your crimes. Your probably thinking thats just stupid they aren\'t getting in trouble for what I did, I didn\'t get caught so it\'s just a harmless prank, but people are getting hurt over your crimes. They are getting pinned up against the wall and treated like dogs because of so many of you arrogant fools, who think your badass. Eventually it will come back around to you and your going to get in trouble for everyone else\'s crimes as well as your own. To many people are being unethical in the way that they hack.

So just think about it, if EVERYONE in the hacker community would strive to make the internet better, and safer, and certain few would stop trying to tear down everything that has been built to share information, for more or less the common good of the world, maybe people we know would not being going to jail for your mistakes.

Just think about it.


minermonkon January 07 2007 - 13:17:41
well writen, although there is no new ideas or content here. Nothing i havent heard from others in the past year
BluMooseon January 07 2007 - 13:25:05
Hackers arent ethical. Live with it.
Phantomchaseron January 07 2007 - 14:18:04
Hackers aren't ethical? You really ought to rethink that. Think about what a hacker is. A real hacker, not the script kiddies and crackers. It's not about tearing down and destroying things. Those that use thier skills for destructive ends and malice have no place calling themselves hackers. Hackers ARE ethical. They work towards the advancement of knowledge. They find a positive outlet for their innate curiosity and creativity. Constantly striving for self improvement. To find proof of this you need look no further than this sight and others like it. Consider the countless members combined who rather than defacing webs sites, destroying guestbooks, or spreading virii, trojans and the like, spend hours on end solving challenges for the personal satisfaction of learning and growing. Script kiddies, crackers, wormers, no. Malicious minds are not our biggest threat. They are nothing more than the tools of the most vicious peril that faces us all: Ignorance. Those that know only the how and not the why. Those that take without giving back. They are the spawn of this spectre. Those that wish to remove the stigma cast upon hackers as a whole, do NOT cast a blind eye. Do NOT simply turn in disgust. Do NOT scorn the ignorant sheep who chose to harm and offend. EDUCATE THEM. Teach them what a hackers is; what it means to be a hacker. Teach them the value of community and friendship. Show them the way of respect, that they will come to know that a hacker is not the evil shadow lurking in the corridors of cyber space and that we are not the media's definition of destrucion and mailce. Live with it? No, I do not live with it. I live in spite of it. I educate myself and those around me in effort to show the true nature of hacking. I give seminars at my place of employment. I teach my friends and family. I lecture at schools. No, friends. I do not simply live with it. If we are truly tired of the backlash from the actions of those few, we have an obligation to ourselves and our community to make every effort to educate the masses so that those who choose to remain ignorant and malevolent are set so far apart, that the hacking community is seen as an asset against such irresponsible action and not the culprit. Our efforts will determine our success. We can not simply call upon the conscience of the ignorant and hope that they will suddenly see the futility of their actions. We must show them a better way. Do not give up. Do not live with it. "The path of least resistance makes both rivers and men crooked"
system_meltdownon January 07 2007 - 15:59:01
Maybe the person hacked the church because of what they beleive in, free speech and the fact religion is brainwashing bullshit Smile
BluMooseon January 07 2007 - 16:22:14
Oh really Phantomchaser? Lets take a look at some real hacking groups with real hackers, none of this hbh/hts stuff. Cult of the Dead Cow - Unethical. Ninja Strike Force - Unethical. LoD - Unethical. =]
th3wh173h47on January 07 2007 - 16:29:42
Phantomchaser seems correct to me because we share the same point of view, although I'm just a noob..But..churches are just retarded Frown
system_meltdownon January 07 2007 - 16:44:23
Ethics are what YOU beleive they are, therefore, everyone can do whatever they want, and be ethical xD
Phantomchaseron January 07 2007 - 17:00:06
By stating that the skill alone constitutes the title you remove the distinction of ethical heirarchy completely. If you wish to abide by such ideology, consider police as criminals, locksmiths as burglars, soldiers as terrorists and everyone as a rapist. Skill alone can not be the determining factor if we hope to elevate the standards of the title. That is specifically what we should hope to avoid. That is expressly what is discussed by the idea that capacity equals intent. Just because you can doesn't mean you will. Intent must be a factor or your wasting your time trying to be anything other than what the stereotype suggests. If you don't make the distinction then neither will those that stereotype.
end3ron January 07 2007 - 17:04:29
Phantom, thats YOUR definition of a hacker. You're trying to push it on everyone else as the ONLY way to go, judging by all of your caps...and statements. And you can't say Hackers ARE ethical, because as system said, Ethics are what you yourself believe to be. Therefore, you may think its unethical to deface a church site, but an atheist may think its ethical because they believe the church is spreading lies.
Phantomchaseron January 07 2007 - 17:23:54
I'm saying that if you want there to be a difference that's the issue. And if you do want there to be a difference you have to drawn a line at positive and negative actions, otherwise the term 'hacker' will be a reference to skill and nothing more. Considering the vast amount of literature expressing the consensus that it needs to be steered away from the negative connotation, positive ethics are essential. It's conditional on whether you want the term to have any specific meaning other than someone being skillful.
StreetK1dzon January 07 2007 - 17:27:30
What meaning are you aiming at?
end3ron January 07 2007 - 17:29:16
So you want hackers to be skillful, and ethical? I know of lots of groups and hackers that are skillful and unethical.
BluMooseon January 07 2007 - 17:38:11
Phantom, you quite clearly grouped a bunch of people together as 'hackers' when you said "Hackers ARE ethical."... I was just telling you that guys on HBH/HTS aren't really hackers compared to cDc n them, rather kids that share common interest in computers/security =] And very well said system Pfft
z3roon January 07 2007 - 17:42:07
system said it best
Phantomchaseron January 07 2007 - 18:24:18
Moose, I don't dispute the skill of these groups. What I'm talking about is the image. In general, I have seen a push to try to steer the term 'hacker' away from the negative stereotype. I'm saying that without positive ethics, that can't happen. The image does more to hinder the whole community than any group. Positive ethics are neccessary if the stereotype is to change. I personally would like to see it change. Aren't you just a little tired of hackers being the scapegoat for the corporate world and the media? I am. As long as hackers are stereotyped as cyber terrorists, they will be the cop-out for the corporate world. It's because when you say hacker, the world sees some punk kid in the basement stealing grandma's credit card number via msn. By changing the stereotype, I mean so people view hackers with respect not fear, disgust, or hatred. Yes, that is my view. However, it is also the view of countless others as illustrated by the immense compilation of articles on the subject. Now I'm not saying that one is right or wrong. I'm saying that this is what I, and many others, prefer and to make that happen, ethics need to be positive.
CrazyCaity123on January 07 2007 - 18:32:59
What about all the poor innocent fascists whose hard work gets destroyed when a whitehat defaces their site? Whether you like it or not, hackers are hackers, and hackers are negatively stereotyped. That's life, deal with it. Also, I agree with what System said.
darksunon January 07 2007 - 18:37:25
well,some people just can't help themselves.they find it 1337 to deface other people's website,because they can.probably, is this ALL they can.there will always be some idiot at weekends, arguing with everyone,creating fights in pubs...cause they don't know better.probably,has to do with parenting problem,educational, psychological's not normal to do has become a normal thing in our society.thosew people are in dire need of help. :happy: there's something wrong with them.
Phantomchaseron January 07 2007 - 18:50:38
Agreed, darksun. And Crazy, whitehat, blackhat, greyhat or other I don't advocate being destructive regardless of who's doing it to who. And yes, system made an excellent point which is why I used the term positive. And finally, to be clear. I respect your points of view, all of you. I even agree with some of what you've said. There will always be someone out to cause problems. Still, I can hope that will change.
BluMooseon January 07 2007 - 20:08:47
Why not come up with a new word for hackers that choose not to hack then? Its generally accepted that the term hacker has replaced cracker...
Phantomchaseron January 07 2007 - 20:15:33
That certainly has merit. Something to think on.
BluMooseon January 07 2007 - 21:06:53
end3ron January 07 2007 - 22:57:53
Personally, I don't think the term hacker will ever have a positive stereotype. It did a long time ago, but that's all been forgotten. There will always be someone who is a rebel, or who goes against the crowd just to say there not doing what everybody else is. Then more people follow them and it happens all over with the negative stereotypes. I think changing the word is a good idea, but there aren't just hackers in North America or Great Britain, there are hackers all over the world who have accepted that term for ages. And to suddenly say: "OK, everybody listen up, we've decided to stop going by the name hacker and change to something else, any ideas?" I don't think that'll be accepted by the hacker culture. So, to sum it all up, I don't think the stereotype would change (even though it'd be nice if it did), someone will always ruin it for others, and it won't be accepted with the snap of your fingers.
BluMooseon January 07 2007 - 23:33:55
Ender, you completely missed the point I was trying to make Pfft I was saying that hacker has the negative stereotype now, and if people aren't okay with that why not make a new word to define themselves?
Flaming_figureson January 07 2007 - 23:58:27
We have. We are Splurges. lol. There are still ethical hackers alive and kicking, but most hacking groups you hear about... you only hear about because they did something big and bad and made front page news. The ones you don't hear about are doing good things... I can't mention any, because I haven't heard of them Smile Besides, it may be ethical to one, unethical to another. It is what the hacker believes. Say he takes down a KKK site. Ethical to him and many, unethical to the KKK and others. If the hacker just goes to a random site and defaces it, that is unethical to all, and is truly bad. They already made a name or themselves... script kiddies.
-The_Flash-on January 08 2007 - 21:33:36
I'm bored of people like PhantomChaser.
end3ron January 08 2007 - 22:45:50
@BluMoose, thats what I said. You can't just change a term thats been used for a while, it has to be done slowly.
end3ron January 08 2007 - 22:46:42
Maybe I'm still missing your point but whatever, I agree with the idea to change it.
BluMooseon January 09 2007 - 20:39:38
Naw im saying why change it? If you really wanna be known as someone that hacks servers then chickens out (whitehat) yer gonna needa make a new name, hacker's already reserved Wink
end3ron January 09 2007 - 21:25:44
koolkeith12345on January 09 2007 - 22:15:26
i think there are a few good points there but if a harmless prank led to the admin of the site realising he cudnt be lazy and had to fix the problem then its a good thing alo without hackers then security would be minimal and a knowledgable programer cud wreak havok. tho defacing and stuff is all uneithical according to most ppl i wud prefer a little java popup on a rubbish guestbook i made or something than someone absolutely wreaking the site.
wolfmankurdon January 10 2007 - 00:13:31
loads of replies... I just thought I'd say it's YOU APOSTROPHY RE YOU ARE YOUR YOUR!!!! lol. And meh just a bit of fun.
BluMooseon January 10 2007 - 17:09:43
kool, its called backups. And seriously, the sites that get defaced are usually made by people that hardly know html, some people have a life other than computer Wink
32to28on January 14 2007 - 06:16:54
This seems like it should have been in a forum post, otherwise, it was the defacer's choice. Put yourself in his position. He might of even been doing other 12. He sees a site against his beliefs, so he defaces it. Not much to it.
ZoNe_VoRTeXon January 14 2007 - 12:53:01
Seeing as how yo've never written an exploit, defaced, or written a decent program its hard to take your opinion on this topic seriously. Defacers are morons. Agreed. "Unethical"? pfft. Grow up.
manticoreon January 15 2007 - 02:44:16
I'll agree with you on the part about these kinds of hackers giving all hackers a bad name.
IceCubeon January 31 2007 - 00:18:33
Wtf, why don't you find a huge exploit on a huge website and then go to the press and say. Hey I found this exploit, but i won't use it as I'm not a hacker, I'm a "Splurger" (an ethical hacker). And try to convince all the unknowing people in their sofas that we are good and not bad. But this will probably not be like that for long as the black sheep will always be the one the medias will be interrested about unless the white ones make themselves so big that the black ones are hidden in the shadows.
iosqon February 02 2007 - 09:35:27
I would agree that the random defacement was unethical........but it was a church website......
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