HellBound Hackers | Computer General | Webmasters Lounge

Mr_Cheese wrote:
when i left college having failed computing a-level and thus unable to get into uni i had 2 choices... get a job at a supermarket, or go self employed.

i chose to go freelance in web development. within two months i had a business producing a healthy income!

one thing to note is that in the beginning you will spend around the same amount of time actively looking for work as you will working on jobs. also getting paid is fucking irritating! you'll spend a large amount of time chasing clients to actually pay up! make sure you got everything agreed in writing over email before you start.

i got most of my clients from the UK site gumtree. Also myspace was quite popular back then and a lot of bands needed websites. I also got some clients from a local paper that had a job section.

as mentioned before in this thread, you'll need a good site selling yourself with a very slick portfolio. when i started i bought a couple of cheap domains and setup fake websites and put them on my portfolio

problem is over the last couple of years out-sourcing web design/development to india/romania has become extremely common as they are able to work for far cheaper than we can.

you could use this to your advantage. get client, find their needs, write a really good spec, outsource to india (rentacoder etc), wait a few days, tweak the code here and there... charge client 3 times as much as the project cost you. i imagine quite a few people follow this business model.

hope thats helpful!

maug wrote:
I forgot something I wanted to add.

Go to Google Maps, and search "web design your-home-town". Look at these guys. These are the local competition. This is what I meant by "You're cheep, you love learning, and you love working long hours." This is the exact opposite of most of the local competition. Without exception, on at least one of those three things. That's your angle.

In the beginning, you'll be charging a flat rate as well. Get used to that too. There will always be times where you're stuck, or have to research, or make a stupid mistake... but if you want a return customer you don't charge them for this stuff. And you keep them in the loop if you do go over the initial estimate. I think You'll find that there is plenty of work where you live. I think you'll learn a bit more by staying local too, like social skills. That's just my opinion though. Like Cheese mentioned, at least you won't have to deal with people who say "I live 2,000 miles away, what are you going to do about it?" when it's time to collect payment.

idlecomet wrote:
Hi, in relation to freelance sites: I've done some work on vWorker.com (actually quite a bit). I've done at least a few months worth of work, and I'm in the top 1-2% of workers, by rating. But I'm still earning way below minimum wage. Competing in the international market is difficult if your country has a high cost of living. So you'll probably need another primary source of income if taking the freelance route. (And if you're a U.S. citizen, vWorker will inform the IRS that you're working there.)

I am however building a nice portfolio, which was my intent. My specialty is software development on Unix using C/C++, SDL, OpenGL, maths, etc., stuff that I thought would always be in high demand. There seems to be a lot more work in iPhone apps, Flash games, and other useless garbage. I also believe there's plenty of web development opportunities.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has actually "made it" through any freelance site, and starting earning a real income. Or does everyone (in the West at least) simply use these for experience?

idlecomet wrote:
Well I can empathize with your situation, DH. I love working with computers, but I couldn't stick computer science in college, it was so BORING!

I can only comment on freelance software development. The employers on vWorker that I've worked for, mostly seem to be self-employed businessmen. I've also worked for other freelancers who "outsourced" their jobs to me (which kinda feels like I've been cheated; but those were the best-paying jobs).

One of the problems starting out with freelancing is that it's difficult to predict how long a job will take. And you usually negotiate price beforehand.

As regards experience, the employers I've worked with, many being self-employed programmers, know exactly what they want. They leave a lot of implementation details to the worker, but their specifications are generally clear. Maybe it's different in web development.


[A side note: if anyone from the Revenue Commission is reading this, I was joking about working online, I pay all my taxes, and what are YOU doing on a hacking site during work hours??]

AldarHawk wrote:
On the way of this freelance chat that is happening I would like to put in a few cents here.

Freelance work CAN pay the bills. The problem is not freelance, it is the sites you look on. vWorker is flooded with people from China, India and Romainia who will do a $50 for $5. That is the problem.

I steer clear of these sites. Rather I work on my own personal website while pounding the pavement when I need to. Yes I do work a full time job and my freelance work is a side note, but it makes me enough money to play with when I need to.

If you are looking to make some money, hit me up on MSN/AIM (I think you are on my list) and we will have a nice conversation, as a conversation normally is better than a bunch of forum posts

MoshBat wrote:
You could always run around the local businesses and do work for very, very little, or even nothing, on the agreement that they will drop your name to other businesses/contacts.

Demons Halo wrote:
is there any general rule you guys follow for estimating a price?

Mr_Cheese wrote:
problem is over the last couple of years out-sourcing web design/development to india/romania has become extremely common as they are able to work for far cheaper than we can.

you could use this to your advantage. get client, find their needs, write a really good spec, outsource to india (rentacoder etc), wait a few days, tweak the code here and there... charge client 3 times as much as the project cost you. i imagine quite a few people follow this business model.

hope thats helpful!

Demons Halo wrote:


Even though you are a total douchebag I will have to agree with you.... besides the new APIs for the mobile market that are out there will keep pushing the bubble toward expansion.




That's why it's often done by a group of people, 2-3 ppl.

but that is actually not my problem. I am not trying to be the next Zuckerberg. I am just trying to get enough information to start my oun self-sustaining company ;P

Mr_Cheese wrote:
you could use this to your advantage. get client, find their needs, write a really good spec, outsource to india (rentacoder etc), wait a few days, tweak the code here and there... charge client 3 times as much as the project cost you. i imagine quite a few people follow this business model.

t0xikc0mputer wrote:
Spyware has a level 60 warn, and you're calling him a douchebag!! Dude, you obviously need to stop insulting dangerous people. (I say dangerous with the greatest respect, and yet wonder)

t0xikc0mputer wrote:
(I say dangerous with the greatest respect, and yet wonder)

ynori7 wrote:

You don't get warned for being dangerous, you get warned for being annoying and causing problems.