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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
ranma
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X35C911 wrote:
Why do gamers need flash websites? You can make BEAUTIFUL websites without flash, using only HTML and CSS. Personal opinion? Maybe. Should we make flash-driven websites? No, fuck no. Compliance with worldwide standards improves security, user-experience and will create a better structured, more solid World Wide Web.
HTML site are very easy to hack (cf basic web hacking) andy kids could crash your website. Hacking Flash site require some AS3 skills.
I'm agree with you, some HTML site are very beautiful but if you want to add some flash movie & some RIA...then....it's sooooo long to download it. A Flash site is totaly downloaded, not a HTML site.
You can build some AIR application with flash code. It's impossible to do it with HTML. 
Lol. Seriously? Hack an html site? Do you propose doing that with DoS or with FTP password brutefortcing? You can't even argue that you could use the expresblockedsion vulnerability, because that requires input being placed on a page, which requires a server side language in most cases.
Back on topic, I agree with Mosh that stealth's website is nice. It's nice because it uses the nice simple design I previously mentioned: the single bar up top and the navbar on the side with the main content on the right of the navbar.
Wisdom spared is wisdom squared. |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
SySTeM
-=[TheOutlaw]=-
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Whilst true about the fact some search engines can index SWFs, not ALL information will be indexed, not nearly as much as an XHTML page. Also, with SWFs you can't specify which elements are more important, <h1> for example, as header tags which contain keywords relevant to the site are important, and in an SWF these are non-existant.
But anyway, the point still stands that text based browsers and people with Javascblockedript turned off completely, or partially off via Noscblockedript, will see NOTHING at all.
XHTML and CSS are fine for web design, Flex is good for in-browser applications, for example Elites0ft uses Flex for the admin panel application, but nothing else.
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
spyware
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system_meltdown wrote:
in-browser applications
DEVIL TAKETH YOUR SOUL
The most censored HBH profile.
"The chowner of property." - Zeph“Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.” - Carl Sagan “Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
pimpim
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spyware wrote:
system_meltdown wrote:
in-browser applications
DEVIL TAKETH YOUR SOUL
Wow, you must really hate Flash...
I don't like the idea of having closed-source software in my browser, but still I think there's some places where Flash can be used, like movie-players, games and such. The worst thing I know is whole websites in Flash.
They're slow, ugly, and are harder to secure than PHP/(X)HTML/CSS websites.
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
x_5631
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Posts: 156
Location: Uk
Joined: 22.06.07
Rank: Mad User |
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spyware wrote:
p4plus2 wrote:
I never said they were better, just pointed out google can index them. SWF have a time and place, JS has a time and place, and HTML has its time and place. As a webdeveloper your job is to think about what audience you are trying to reach. If you wish to reach gamers, a more interactive flash based site may be more beneficial to you. A blog on the other hand would best be written in simple HTML with CSS.
I figured that you would have the common sense to understand flash based sites would not be optimal in most situations, but you proved me wrong on that one. Next time I'll open my front door and shout it out to the whole fucking world. Would that help?
Maintaining a flash-driven website or something? Sheesh. When I was "shouting", I was being angry at FLASH. And flash developers. Yeah, flash has a time and a place. Games. That's the only thing it should do. Should these be streamed from a browser? Probably not. Maybe in a separate thread, then it should be okay.
Websites should be coded purely in valid HTML and CSS standards. Should we go out of our way to support IE6.0? NO. Should we exclude people who don't run Javasc blockedript? NO. Should we exclude people who don't/can't run flash? NO.
Why do gamers need flash websites? You can make BEAUTIFUL websites without flash, using only HTML and CSS. Personal opinion? Maybe. Should we make flash-driven websites? No, fuck no. Compliance with worldwide standards improves security, user-experience and will create a better structured, more solid World Wide Web.
I agree, overall.
But let's face it, people who can't use Javascblockedript or Flash in their browsers are so rare these days that they almost don't exist.
Javascblockedript can actually be very helpful for making a site run smooth, for example with slow internet connections, it can mean refreshing only a portion of a page, rather than the whole thing.
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
p4plus2
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x_5631 wrote:
I agree, overall.
But let's face it, people who can't use Javascblockedript or Flash in their browsers are so rare these days that they almost don't exist.
Javascblockedript can actually be very helpful for making a site run smooth, for example with slow internet connections, it can mean refreshing only a portion of a page, rather than the whole thing.
If you think about it you could make it so your site supports a javascblockedriptless environment. Say you use links to dynamically load content, what if you made them real links to a alternative page with all of the content and then had a javascblockedript that would change the location to a javascblockedript function that changes your content. That way the links only change to a javascblockedript environment if javascblockedript is enabled, and its not that much more work in the short or long term.
"You can't be something your not,
Be yourself by yourself
Stay away from me" ~Walk, Pantera
"Playing an acoustic guitar is like having sex with your clothes on" ~Dave Mustaine |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
spyware
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Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 14.04.07
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Warn Level: 90
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x_5631 wrote:
I agree, overall.
But let's face it, people who can't use Javascblockedript or Flash in their browsers are so rare these days that they almost don't exist.
Security awareness. You don't have it.
The most censored HBH profile.
"The chowner of property." - Zeph“Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.” - Carl Sagan “Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
x_5631
Member
Posts: 156
Location: Uk
Joined: 22.06.07
Rank: Mad User |
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spyware wrote:
x_5631 wrote:
I agree, overall.
But let's face it, people who can't use Javascblockedript or Flash in their browsers are so rare these days that they almost don't exist.
Security awareness. You don't have it.
Care to elaborate?
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
p4plus2
Member
Posts: 167
Location:
Joined: 31.03.08
Rank: God |
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x_5631 wrote:
spyware wrote:
x_5631 wrote:
I agree, overall.
But let's face it, people who can't use Javascblockedript or Flash in their browsers are so rare these days that they almost don't exist.
Security awareness. You don't have it.
Care to elaborate?
Disabling javascblockedript and flash prevents redirects, cookie stealing, unescapable rickrolls, adverts, potential bugs in JS/flash and so on.
"You can't be something your not,
Be yourself by yourself
Stay away from me" ~Walk, Pantera
"Playing an acoustic guitar is like having sex with your clothes on" ~Dave Mustaine |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
X35C911
Member
Posts: 28
Location: France
Joined: 29.12.08
Rank: Newbie |
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spyware wrote:
AIR? Fuck AIR! Fuck Adobe!
I like Adobe, you don't like it okay it's your choice. There is many ways to do a website, I have mine...
AIR is more easy to use for me, I can do some desktop & web application & I'm happy. I had try to use C & PHP but I don't like it, it's too hard for me.
I never say that HTML website are bad, some of them are very cool. |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
p4plus2
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Posts: 167
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X35C911 wrote:
spyware wrote:
AIR? Fuck AIR! Fuck Adobe!
I like Adobe, you don't like it okay it's your choice. There is many ways to do a website, I have mine...
AIR is more easy to use for me, I can do some desktop & web application & I'm happy. I had try to use C & PHP but I don't like it, it's too hard for me.
I never say that HTML website are bad, some of them are very cool.
I must agree to an extent with that. While air is perfectly suitable for simple applications such as a twitter search or a messenger system, it would not be very wise to make a video converter or file browser. Everything has its use, air is for simple applications requiring little to no system level interactions.
"You can't be something your not,
Be yourself by yourself
Stay away from me" ~Walk, Pantera
"Playing an acoustic guitar is like having sex with your clothes on" ~Dave Mustaine |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
x_5631
Member
Posts: 156
Location: Uk
Joined: 22.06.07
Rank: Mad User |
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p4plus2 wrote:
x_5631 wrote:
spyware wrote:
x_5631 wrote:
I agree, overall.
But let's face it, people who can't use Javascblockedript or Flash in their browsers are so rare these days that they almost don't exist.
Security awareness. You don't have it.
Care to elaborate?
Disabling javasc blockedript and flash prevents redirects, cookie stealing, unescapable rickrolls, adverts, potential bugs in JS/flash and so on.
and Yet none of those things have happened to me for a long time when I have it enabled, so they're not that big a risk.
Also, my point was not that Javascblockedript and Flash are amazing, it was that almost everyone has compatibility with them, and therefore if a site has Javascblockedript, if they have it turned off it's their problem that the scblockedripts wont work, and that just because some people don't use it doesn't mean that a site shouldn't.
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
X35C911
Member
Posts: 28
Location: France
Joined: 29.12.08
Rank: Newbie |
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To p4plus2 & x_5631
I'm agree with you. |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
spyware
Member
Posts: 4151
Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 14.04.07
Rank: God
Warn Level: 90
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To idiots above: You never notice a swift and capable thief.
The most censored HBH profile.
"The chowner of property." - Zeph“Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.” - Carl Sagan “Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
p4plus2
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Posts: 167
Location:
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spyware wrote:
To idiots above: You never notice a swift and capable thief.
Air is for desktop applications, so having flash disabled means nothing. If you don't want to run air applications then don't install air, really simple. Almost everything can harm you these days, if you are that concerned get off your computer. Air applications do not magically run in your web browser and therefore disabled or not it doesn't matter, they will only run if you download and double-click on it providing air is installed.
If you are now scared of desktop applications, why don't you just freeze your your hard drive. Never allow a single change.
Spyware, I do understand there is a want for security but there is also a limit between sanity and paranoid. Block flash and JS, that is acceptable. You choose to install air applications, they are not automatic. You have the option to not install. Air applications are not all powerful and are very limited in their capabilities. That is not to say a malicious coder can't still do something, but it would be much harder and installation is choice.
Just use a browser like lynx and stop complaining about insecurities, they exist nobody can stop them. Get a good firewall and anti virus, and never use creditcards or other sensitive crap online. My recommendations would be a separate partition for creditcard transactions where you make your purchase and log out asap. Then you don't have to worry about your personal information at least. As for stealing of sessions and other malicious conduct from JS/flash have no scblockedript running flash off and then stop complaining.
"You can't be something your not,
Be yourself by yourself
Stay away from me" ~Walk, Pantera
"Playing an acoustic guitar is like having sex with your clothes on" ~Dave Mustaine |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
spyware
Member
Posts: 4151
Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 14.04.07
Rank: God
Warn Level: 90
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p4plus2 wrote:
Air is for desktop applications, so having flash disabled means nothing.
I was talking about JS/Flash in a browser.
If you are now scared of desktop applications, why don't you just freeze your your hard drive. Never allow a single change.
Weren't we discussing in-browser applications/renditions? I understand the link between Adobe Flash and Air, but I'm not sure why Air got added to this discussion.
Just use a browser like lynx and stop complaining about insecurities, they exist nobody can stop them. Get a good firewall and anti virus, and never use creditcards or other sensitive crap online. My recommendations would be a separate partition for creditcard transactions where you make your purchase and log out asap. Then you don't have to worry about your personal information at least. As for stealing of sessions and other malicious conduct from JS/flash have no scblockedript running flash off and then stop complaining.
You're a Windows user I take it?
Your stance towards security is apathetic, and I doubt you have enough knowledge about cyber-forensics to express well-argumented opinions. It's very easy to mark the security-aware people as "paranoid", and label them crazy. Very easy.
The most censored HBH profile.
"The chowner of property." - Zeph“Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.” - Carl Sagan “Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert
Edited by spyware on 04-07-09 19:20 |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
p4plus2
Member
Posts: 167
Location:
Joined: 31.03.08
Rank: God |
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spyware wrote:
p4plus2 wrote:
Air is for desktop applications, so having flash disabled means nothing.
I was talking about JS/Flash in a browser.
If you are now scared of desktop applications, why don't you just freeze your your hard drive. Never allow a single change.
Weren't we discussing in-browser applications/renditions? I understand the link between Adobe Flash and Air, but I'm not sure why Air got added to this discussion.
Just use a browser like lynx and stop complaining about insecurities, they exist nobody can stop them. Get a good firewall and anti virus, and never use creditcards or other sensitive crap online. My recommendations would be a separate partition for creditcard transactions where you make your purchase and log out asap. Then you don't have to worry about your personal information at least. As for stealing of sessions and other malicious conduct from JS/flash have no scblockedript running flash off and then stop complaining.
You're a Windows user I take it?
Your stance towards security is apathetic, and I doubt you have enough knowledge about cyber-forensics to express well-argumented opinions. It's very easy to mark the security-aware people as "paranoid", and label them crazy. Very easy.
Air came in at post id 137425. Your reply about 'the above idiot' seemed to be mentioning to that. That out of the way.....
I am not a windows user, and by your message implying that non-windows users are perfectly safe is wrong. Linux(which is what I use, fedora 11 waiting for fedora 12 alpha to be ready), is not impervious to think that is a misconception. While thousands of times better than windows, things do get through that can harm the system.
A few can be found with these links:
http://linuxreviews.org/news/2004/06/11_kernel_crash/
http://isec.pl/vulnerabilities/isec-0021-uselib.txt
http://y2h4ck.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/linux-kernel-2622-openftruncate-local-exploit/
http://www.isec.pl/vulnerabilities/isec-0021-uselib.txt
http://www.milw0rm.com/exploits/5092
Those are just the kernel too, more exploits can be found in programs that come with various distros. Linux users should still use firewalls and anti viruses. I don't think complete security is bad, but to much is paranoid and has the potential to harm a system. Many of those articles are old, but the past very often repeats itself.
What is the point in developing technologies that enhance interactivity if users have to fear them? The golden rule says treat all users as hackers, but that doesn't mean that we should run around with our tail between our legs. As somebody that spends time on a computer the goal is to find a solution, not hide the problem and hope it goes away.
To judge what qualifies somebody is also a rather presumptuous notion isn't it? There is a certain amount of hypocrisy to that subject too, for nobody can know everything about a subject meaning nobody can ever truly qualify. So what qualifies you to say I may not qualify? It is a matter of opinion, and nothing more.
"You can't be something your not,
Be yourself by yourself
Stay away from me" ~Walk, Pantera
"Playing an acoustic guitar is like having sex with your clothes on" ~Dave Mustaine
Edited by p4plus2 on 04-07-09 21:00 |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
spyware
Member
Posts: 4151
Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 14.04.07
Rank: God
Warn Level: 90
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p4plus2 wrote:
I am not a windows user, and by your message implying that non-windows users are perfectly safe is wrong.
I never implied such a thing. I was asking if you were a Windows-only user because your stance towards open standards, security and the level of awareness you've shown in this thread don't really match with the regular Linux user. I must admit that "Air" is a bad example of closed-source software, since there's a Linux version available.
The most censored HBH profile.
"The chowner of property." - Zeph“Widespread intellectual and moral docility may be convenient for leaders in the short term,
but it is suicidal for nations in the long term.” - Carl Sagan “Since the grid is inescapable, what were the earlier lasers about? Does the corridor have a sense of humor?” - Ebert |
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RE: Is it just me, or am I incredibly bad at designing websites? |
p4plus2
Member
Posts: 167
Location:
Joined: 31.03.08
Rank: God |
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spyware wrote:
I never implied such a thing. I was asking if you were a Windows-only user because your stance towards open standards, security and the level of awareness you've shown in this thread don't really match with the regular Linux user. I must admit that "Air" is a bad example of closed-source software, since there's a Linux version available.
I never said I do not support 'closed-source' in fact, flex is a open-source framework for flash development. The IDE will cost you, however it is not required. http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK
Security and the level of awareness? I linked you to many potentially malicious exploits in the linux kernel, I am aware that things are not perfect. I never claim that leaving JS and flash on is 'safe', there is no way to be fully 'safe'. I acknowledge they are not safe, but I also believe running aware from a problem doesn't fix it. I find a background check on a site is much easier than limiting the sites potential.
My apologies over the "I never implied such a thing", your message seemed to have that sort of "windows is the only flawed system out there".
"You can't be something your not,
Be yourself by yourself
Stay away from me" ~Walk, Pantera
"Playing an acoustic guitar is like having sex with your clothes on" ~Dave Mustaine |
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